Tomorrow!

[John the Monkey]

Surely the difficulty in making the use of hands free kits illegal is the difficulty in determining if someone is using one or not. How could you prove it, unless you look at phone records. As vike has pointed out this isn't an easy process.

If we can't police the use of hand held mobile phones, what chance do we have with hands free?

It needs to be done via education, and perhaps post-facto prosecution if the times of calls and times of reported "accidents" match up (maybe with a corresponding change in the way phone records are accessed to ease that latter process). Insurers could make themselves a factor too, I suppose.

 

[Muddyfox]

At least with a handsfree kit you can still operate the gears and steering wheel with both hands, which is I imagine why they're legal.

Best thing i ever did was to buy one of those handsfree kits ... i dont spill my coffee when i answer the phone anymore

Simon

 

[Piemaster]

Seems odd to me that if a miscreant is stopped for driving whilst using a phone, then the officer finds car is not legal (tax/insurance) it can be seized, even eventually crushed but phone can't be confiscated.

Suppose it allows them then to phone for a taxi.

 

[Vikeonabike]

Seems odd to me that if a miscreant is stopped for driving whilst using a phone, then the officer finds car is not legal (tax/insurance) it can be seized, even eventually crushed but phone can't be confiscated.

Suppose it allows them then to phone for a taxi.

Piemaster, the phone could be confiscated, it would be evidence of an offence. However, because we are so keen on our human rights now and with the mobile phone considered by many to be the most important personal possession, seizing [the phone] probably wouldn't be considered proportionate to the offence. I think people would rather give up their car than their phone!
Any copper will tell you, when someone is rested you take their personal possessions from them to book into custody. They happily hand over wallets full of cash, house keys, car keys etc. Try and take the phone...things can get ugly!

 

[jonny jeez]

Indeed. I think it stems from a viewpoint that the problem with usage of a handheld mobile phone is entirely physical, i.e. it takes up one of your hands that could be in use controlling the vehicle.

(Fairly) recent research has shown that there's a very real problem with attention and hazard perception whilst using a hands free mobile, with some studies showing participants four times more likely to miss hazards whilst using handsfree than while doing the same test whilst over the drink drive limit.

whilst I'm loath to link to wikipedia, there's a good summary of current research (with links to the papers/institutions) here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_and_driving_safety

The only study to conclude that handsfree is *less* distracting is one funded by headset manufacturer Plantronics. That conflict of interest, and the fact that the other research is farily unequivocal in concluding that handsfree is at least as distracting as handheld makes me (personally) doubt its validity.

There's a huge job of education to be done here - I can't see legal force being applied to handsfree with any effectiveness, given the way the law on hand held mobile use is so routinely flouted, and the latter is fairly clearly visible.

I don't think the use of a phone (as in, carrying out a conversation) is a distraction at all. Its the "operation" of the phone that is massively dangerous...looking away from the windscreen whilst fiddling with call's etc.

I have a touch screen entertainment system in my car, it controls a myriad of different operations and is HUGELY distracting to operate, I often pull over to select a song track as the menu is so vast and entwining that it takes 5-10 seconds to change media, then, genre, then album, then scroll down the list (slide the button or hit the down arrow repeatedly) then select the track...all whilst supposedly concentrating on my driving.

This system has a large screen which is located within the field of vision for driving, but still I find it uncomfortable to use whilst driving…so, the operation of a tiny screened phone, with tiny buttons, tiny texts and all away from my field of vision…seems 10 times worse to me.

 

[John the Monkey]

I don't think the use of a phone (as in, carrying out a conversation) is a distraction at all. Its the "operation" of the phone that is massively dangerous...looking away from the windscreen whilst fiddling with call's etc.

Read the research.

It's the cognitive workload that seems to be the factor - the conversation is taking you out of the task of driving (talking about widget sales, what you're having for tea &c &c).

 

[BentMikey]

I don't think the use of a phone (as in, carrying out a conversation) is a distraction at all. Its the "operation" of the phone that is massively dangerous...looking away from the windscreen whilst fiddling with call's etc.

Studies show that you have this the wrong way around. The major distraction and danger with phone use comes from the mental investment in the conversation. That's why handsfree is pretty much as dangerous as holding the phone.

 

[summerdays]

I don't think the use of a phone (as in, carrying out a conversation) is a distraction at all. Its the "operation" of the phone that is massively dangerous...looking away from the windscreen whilst fiddling with call's etc.

Occasionally people phone me and you start to realise from the pauses in the conversation that they are doing something else - if they are in a car I ask them to phone back when they have arrived. Those pauses are because they are failing at the doing two things at once.

 

[jonny jeez]

Read the research.

It's the cognitive workload that seems to be the factor - the conversation is taking you out of the task of driving (talking about widget sales, what you're having for tea &c &c).

Studies show that you have this the wrong way around. The major distraction and danger with phone use comes from the mental investment in the conversation. That's why handsfree is pretty much as dangerous as holding the phone.

Occasionally people phone me and you start to realise from the pauses in the conversation that they are doing something else - if they are in a car I ask them to phone back when they have arrived. Those pauses are because they are failing at the doing two things at once.

Agreed...and perhaps my choice of words "not a distraction AT ALL" is too strong, its must offer some distraction I guess

But surely, the phsical distraction of actually operating another instrumnent when you should be operating the vehicle is a bigger one (albeit for a small amount of time) and hence the operation of unwinding a handsfree set, or driving with your knees as you plug it in, or scrolling through menu's or even trying to find the phone to plug it in...is all a massive distraction.

I tend to think that unless your car has a bluetooth system, that allows the phone to be in a briefcase in the boot (and not accesable for fiddling) then you should not be on the phone at all when driving.

Now using your phone to film stuff, well thats another question (ahem)

 

[John the Monkey]

I tend to think that unless your car has a bluetooth system, that allows the phone to be in a briefcase in the boot (and not accesable for fiddling) then you should not be on the phone at all when driving.

If you want to be within the letter of the law, you're 100% right.

If you want to increase your own safety and that of the other people on the road, you shouldn't be on the phone full stop while you are driving, handsfree or handheld. I don't answer my phone when I'm driving, personally.

 

[Piemaster]

Piemaster, the phone could be confiscated, it would be evidence of an offence. However, because we are so keen on our human rights now and with the mobile phone considered by many to be the most important personal possession, seizing [the phone] probably wouldn't be considered proportionate to the offence. I think people would rather give up their car than their phone!
Any copper will tell you, when someone is rested you take their personal possessions from them to book into custody. They happily hand over wallets full of cash, house keys, car keys etc. Try and take the phone...things can get ugly!

Sorry, I got the wrong impression from one of you previous posts with the 'human rights' thing.
Wonder if confiscation of the phone would be a bigger deterrent than the fixed penalty and points in place now as the law is being so widely disregarded.
Actually I'd favour returning the phone to its owner in the form of a small cube after being through a mini crusher. Or a lump hammer. It might even get through to some a direct link using it while driving and losing it.

 

[Crankarm]

Vike, how's the scalp count going with your new camera? You a millionaire yet ?

 

[Vikeonabike]

Vike, how's the scalp count going with your new camera? You a millionaire yet ?

Not yet, been working nights, It's next to useless in the dark and rain..will give it a try Saturday and Sunday on lates..