Tour de France 2025 (CONTAINS SPOILERS!)

[Jameshow]

The gap between pog and Jonas looks tighter than the Dauphine..but hard to say

Pog is only warming up..... Jonas is on the ropes.....

 

[tarric]

Pog is only warming up..... Jonas is on the ropes.....

Along way to go yet, three more lumpy stages this week before they get into the mountains next week including a mountain TT, we'll have a better idea who's on the ropes after that.

 

[BrumJim]

Can they refuse to award a combativity prize for a stage because no one was really combative?

Looks like they didn't award a combativity prize for stage 3.

 

[Pross]

Looks like they didn't award a combativity prize for stage 3.

Only the second time in the history of the competition

 

[Pross]

Pog is only warming up..... Jonas is on the ropes.....

Not convinced at that. Jonas has avoided time loss on a couple of finishes that suited Pog much more and has his favoured terrain to look forward to later in the race. Pog managed to briefly get a gap yesterday but it seemed to happen when Jonas looked behind him and he closed back quite easily (possibly as Pog realised there wasn't far enough to the top to hold the gap and knocked it off). It sounds odd considering he won the stage but I didn't think Pog looked at his best yesterday but that's probably as we've got accustomed to seeing him ride away at will whilst this race is a different level.

 

[No Ta Doctor]

Not convinced at that. Jonas has avoided time loss on a couple of finishes that suited Pog much more and has his favoured terrain to look forward to later in the race. Pog managed to briefly get a gap yesterday but it seemed to happen when Jonas looked behind him and he closed back quite easily (possibly as Pog realised there wasn't far enough to the top to hold the gap and knocked it off). It sounds odd considering he won the stage but I didn't think Pog looked at his best yesterday but that's probably as we've got accustomed to seeing him ride away at will whilst this race is a different level.

Vingegaard says yesterdays gap was when he sat up because he thought the pace was too hard, but then he saw it was too high for Pog to maintain as well so he "got his shoot together".

I think there's some interesting stuff going on with attack punchiness and duration. Pog used to be able to punch his way to a few meters, where Vingegaard would close a little more progressively, and then rinse and repeat. I think that's how the gap over the Galibier opened up last year. My memory of Vingegaard's wins in 22 and 23 is largely that Pog could open a few meters but could never really make it stick, Jonas was back on his wheel pretty quickly.

Jonas now has added some muscle and become more punchy, and Pog in the Dauphine started attacking seated - a little less punch but a far longer duration - where clearly he had Jonas on the ropes. I don't think he "broke" him - Jonas sat up before he blew up there - but he was clearly way ahead.

Here on the shorter climb Pog attacks standing again, but Jonas is able to follow him without having to close much of an original gap, he matches the punch. But Pog continues and Vingegaard sits down - until he stands up again and closes with little bother. Vingegaard thinks he sees Pog reach his limit there, but it may just have been that he was running out of climb anyway so eased up.

Whether either have been going all in yet isn't clear, they may still be measuring each other - both here and at the Dauphine earlier. But quick punch V longer seated acceleration and who can get the most out of either is going to be an interesting watch.


EDIT: Just seen this on Bluesky from Velon - Pog says it was all out on the climb.

 

[Pross]

Vingegaard says yesterdays gap was when he sat up because he thought the pace was too hard, but then he saw it was too high for Pog to maintain as well so he "got his shoot together".

I think there's some interesting stuff going on with attack punchiness and duration. Pog used to be able to punch his way to a few meters, where Vingegaard would close a little more progressively, and then rinse and repeat. I think that's how the gap over the Galibier opened up last year. My memory of Vingegaard's wins in 22 and 23 is largely that Pog could open a few meters but could never really make it stick, Jonas was back on his wheel pretty quickly.

Jonas now has added some muscle and become more punchy, and Pog in the Dauphine started attacking seated - a little less punch but a far longer duration - where clearly he had Jonas on the ropes. I don't think he "broke" him - Jonas sat up before he blew up there - but he was clearly way ahead.

Here on the shorter climb Pog attacks standing again, but Jonas is able to follow him without having to close much of an original gap, he matches the punch. But Pog continues and Vingegaard sits down - until he stands up again and closes with little bother. Vingegaard thinks he sees Pog reach his limit there, but it may just have been that he was running out of climb anyway so eased up.

Whether either have been going all in yet isn't clear, they may still be measuring each other - both here and at the Dauphine earlier. But quick punch V longer seated acceleration and who can get the most out of either is going to be an interesting watch.


EDIT: Just seen this on Bluesky from Velon - Pog says it was all out on the climb.

View attachment 779477

Pog looking far more spent at the finish than he usually does (but then he'd had to outpower VDP on a draggy uphill sprint). I do wonder if this gain in muscle to be more punchy will impact Jonas on the longer climbs though.

 

[No Ta Doctor]

Pog looking far more spent at the finish than he usually does (but then he'd had to outpower VDP on a draggy uphill sprint). I do wonder if this gain in muscle to be more punchy will impact Jonas on the longer climbs though.

Yeah, that's the really interesting bit. Last year Vingegaard put out best ever W/Kg numbers - but mainly because he was missing quite a few Kg. In the Dauphine Pog looked like he was trying to maximise a longer duration effort (not sure how long the "attack" part of it lasted). So Jonas is a little more Pog-like and Pog is maybe a little more Jonas-like. And I think they're still trying to get a feel for what works against the other.

My own feel is that after Dauphine Jonas has gone back to work on longer attack efforts, to counter the fact that Pog seems to be able to attack forever now. As he never really blows up, it's about trying to find if he can squeeze a few more seconds at that power out before going too far into the red. Yesterday will have been good data for both riders - Jonas says it was his highest ever 1 minute effort.

Watching yesterday I was thinking "how long can this attack last?" He was doing it standing, so it should have shorter, but it was both brutal and long

 

[Gweeds]

Has Pog had an off today - black marks up the side of his jersey during warm-up

 

[No Ta Doctor]

Tissot timing for the lives times if anyone wants to follow the splits etc
Tissot Timing TdF Stage 5

 

[mididoctors]

Has Pog had an off today - black marks up the side of his jersey during warm-up

????

 

[mididoctors]

Where did you see that ....

 

[mididoctors]

There off

 

[MasterDabber]

Watching on France TV today

 

[Shadow]

Has Pog had an off today - black marks up the side of his jersey during warm-up

I noticed this a few stages ago. My feeling is that it is part of the design of the kit; if you look at the rest of the UAD team, they all have those dark stripes. It is supremely annoying.