Training for epic tour mileage advice?

[roubaixtuesday]

So the first Col I look at the Joux plan is 11.6k long with average gradient of 8.6% with a max of 12.8%. So never above 10%🤔

Perhaps outside the letter of my words, but inside the spirit, I think at least.

 

[Legs]

Thank you for the input! I’ll up the frequency and variety of riding and see how that goes for a couple of months.

This tour is London to Rome, over 39 days total with 31 scheduled ride days, so there’s reasonable rest. I agree about the gearing comments - I saw their standard specification and thought it seemed a bit ambitious, given that’s the kind of ratios even professionals use in the mountains. So, will see if there’s options, or look at taking my own bike instead.

Time to get busy!

34x32 is a very, very low ratio unless you're riding with panniers or with a child seat.

Concur with @roubaixtuesday that most Alpine climbs are really not especially steep. You'll encounter steeper hills in Kent!

If you've got the strength to be riding 110km days, and you're going at a leisurely pace, you'll be fine.

 

[Dogtrousers]

34x32 is a very, very low ratio unless you're riding with panniers or with a child seat.

Concur with @roubaixtuesday that most Alpine climbs are really not especially steep. You'll encounter steeper hills in Kent!

If you've got the strength to be riding 110km days, and you're going at a leisurely pace, you'll be fine.

I'd disagree in the point in bold. 34(front)/32(rear) is pretty much the standard bottom gear on most off the shelf road bikes these days(50/34 11-32). That or 34/34. I wouldn't describe it as very, very low. It's not exotically low like the gears you can get with a triple or on some gravel 1x setups. That's just me being picky about "very, very low". It's not all that relevant to the thread.

That said, we're all different and it's up to the OP to sort out their own gearing.

I've tackled a few virtual courses on the Tacx system that have been pretty hilly, and think I do "ok". Looks like I better take some MTFU pills and do some more then..

I made a lot of use of Tacx virtual climbs preparing for my visit to the Grand Colombier last year. That was a totally different trip as it was one day riding not multiple, but I would say that the virtual rides are pretty realistic in terms of what it takes physically, except they don't simulate very steep sections very well, especially not if you are heavier than average (as I am). My legs felt similar at the top of the real one to how the felt at the "top" of a pretend one.

 

[presta]

That said, we're all different and it's up to the OP to sort out their own gearing.

Experience.
I'm thinking that a few shorter tours would tell the OP more than any amount of internet advice, a month's tour's a lot of time and money to commit if you're not sure.

 

[Wheelspinner]

I'd disagree in the point in bold. 34(front)/32(rear) is pretty much the standard bottom gear on most off the shelf road bikes these days(50/34 11-32). That or 34/34. I wouldn't describe it as very, very low. It's not exotically low like the gears you can get with a triple or on some gravel 1x setups. That's just me being picky about "very, very low". It's not all that relevant to the thread.

That said, we're all different and it's up to the OP to sort out their own gearing.


I made a lot of use of Tacx virtual climbs preparing for my visit to the Grand Colombier last year. That was a totally different trip as it was one day riding not multiple, but I would say that the virtual rides are pretty realistic in terms of what it takes physically, except they don't simulate very steep sections very well, especially not if you are heavier than average (as I am). My legs felt similar at the to of the real one to how the felt at the "top" of a pretend one.

The Tacx trainers list theoretical max simulations for gradient and power input, but those are actually dependent on the weight of the rider entered in the software. I think I read somewhere the max numbers are based on a rider weight of about 60 kg, and any more than that reduces the simulated maximum values, which is particularly relevant on the models with lower max numbers.

I'll likely rebuild a bike *or* buy a new one to use in prep. My roadies are all rim brake, 11 speed and with 11-28 cassettes. Two have 50/34 cranks, the third is a 52/36. At the very least I'll swap to a medium cage mech and bigger cassette on the trainer I think.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The Tacx trainers list theoretical max simulations for gradient and power input, but those are actually dependent on the weight of the rider entered in the software. I think I read somewhere the max numbers are based on a rider weight of about 60 kg, and any more than that reduces the simulated maximum values, which is particularly relevant on the models with lower max numbers.

I can't remember the numbers but I think my trainer claims 15% or thereabouts but with a 92kg lump like me on it, I'd say about 12 is the highest that it feels right.

 

[Wheelspinner]

Experience.
I'm thinking that a few shorter tours would tell the OP more than any amount of internet advice, a month's tour's a lot of time and money to commit if you're not sure.

Yep, this is a definite bucket list item for me, and then some...

 

[Dogtrousers]

I wish I could find the time to do something like that. Enjoy your planning and preparation.

 

[Psamathe]

I don't like hills but my gearing is good and it's more psychological than physical but when touring I find the Garmin Climb feature very helpful. On a route (when you load a route onto the device) it identifies the significant climbs and you get a screen listing the climbs, each profile and where they are (distance to start). Great help so you can slow for the few miles before the climb to make sure you are fresh for the climb.

Once on each climb it shows where you are, remaining ascent, etc.

My Garmin 1040 and 1050 include the feature (free) unsure about other devices.

Maybe get the daily routes in advance from the tour provider.

Ian

 

[PaulSB]

That's interesting. If I'm on unfamiliar territory the last thing I won't to know is how much longer the climb will go on for! We're all so different.

 

[Psamathe]

That's interesting. If I'm on unfamiliar territory the last thing I won't to know is how much longer the climb will go on for! We're all so different.

For me, each glance at the screen emohasises less left to do. It shows a profile graph of the climb and colour codes the grades along the way so as you approach a bad/hard bit you look ahead and doesn't look so bad, then over the worst bits.

Ian

 

[Tigerbiten]

34x32 is a very, very low ratio unless you're riding with panniers or with a child seat.

Concur with @roubaixtuesday that most Alpine climbs are really not especially steep. You'll encounter steeper hills in Kent!

If you've got the strength to be riding 110km days, and you're going at a leisurely pace, you'll be fine.

I don't think 34x32 is that low as I had a very similar 1st gear on my bike 40 odd years ago, 30x28.
But on the 3rd day in the mountains, when it's the 2nd long climb on a hot day, I'd want something lower.
Unless you have fewer than 9 sprockets then a 36t big sprockets is easy to fit without have big steps in the cassette as that gives another gear down.
If you don't need a 122" top gear, then around a 10% drop in all gears with a sub-compact setup is now a lot easier to set up.
My thinking is it's always better to have one more gear down and not need it rather that needing another gear down and not having it towards the end of a long day

 

[Legs]

I don't think 34x32 is that low as I had a very similar 1st gear on my bike 40 odd years ago, 30x28.

I'm not saying it's an unusually low ratio, just that it is very, very low. If a hill is so steep that you can't turn it and need something smaller, you'll probably be struggling to keep the front wheel down or struggling for traction.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I'm not saying it's an unusually low ratio, just that it is very, very low. If a hill is so steep that you can't turn it and need something smaller, you'll probably be struggling to keep the front wheel down or struggling for traction.

I think more that if you need an even lower gear than that for a 10% hill, then you're going to really struggle to complete 100km/1000m+ climbing day in, day out for weeks.

If you're fit enough for the distance and hills, then you don't need lower gears.

 

[CXRAndy]

We all know or should that spinning up a hill is less physically challenging than grinding. The muscles fibres don't take as much of a battering. The glycogen stores aren't as depleted. Therefore the recovery for the next day is less demanding.

I'm only talking from my own experience of 7 day tours in Tenerife, there are many here who make my cycling achievements look piddly 😁

I trained to spin at 85rpm for 2-4 hours when climbing Teide. The following day my legs felt fresh, not heavy.

At the end of the week we were asked how we felt the weeks riding had gone and how tough the group felt the days riding had been.

I felt really good, I paced the climbs to cadence and HR riding just in upper Z2, never pushing beyond and sometimes dialling back to near Z1 when needing a breather

It's about hanging in for long multi day tours. 31 days is huge, I would expect the OP will find a huge fitness leap if he can pace the first couple of weeks