Tubeless woes pt4?

[livpoksoc]

Quick update here - I finally took the tyre off yesterday, thoroughly cleaned it down and the same with the rim. I have removed the worms from the two large holes, cleaned out any debris wiped with alcohol. Then (under guidance from the lbs) put standard inner tube patches on the inside of the tyre with the solution too. The rest is my own attempt - I used a clamp on each patch to help it set, and then ran a bead of solution around the edge of one patch and superglue the other as a bit of an A/B test. I then left it overnight to set.

This morning, I reseated the tyre and loaded up with sealant, and pumped it up (compressor first) keeping everything crossed. I then began manual pumping and got to 60psi before tell tale hissing began - but thankfully not from the patched holes, only from the smaller hole. I gave the wheel a few spins and hung it with this hole facing the floor to encourage the sealant into it.

I've just gone back in and repumped it up, the same small hole hissed again but this time it seemed to stop after a minute, and sealant appears to have plugged the hole as it is setting.

Frustratingly one of the larger holes is bubbling (but not hissing) which does mean it's compromised, but going to try the same hangy upside downy trick again to see if this helps reinforce it enough to hold the air sufficiently enough to allow me to ride it and hopefully get some extra miles off it.

From an A/B perspective, I think this one was the superglue beaded patch, and if it continues to lose pressure I'll replicate the one that's holding.

 

[livpoksoc]

Not really a quick update in the end

 

[andrew_s]

So get the brand new inner tube out of the saddle bag, get one side of the tyre off the rim, get the valve out, pop the tube in...

Just popping a tube in when using tubeless isn't necessarily as simple as replacing an existing tube.

There's a decent chance that your tubeless tyre will have self sealed at some point, and the pointy culprits will most likely still be in the tyre, waiting to stab holes in your nice new tube. Finding and removing one or more pointy things doesn't guarantee there's not another that you didn't find. Furthermore, the tube will have sealant on it that will make any holes in your new tube hard to fix, and, of course, running tubeless, you are only going to have the one tube.

Running tubes, removing the pointy object is as much part of dealing witrh a puncture as is replacing the tube, so there's never a backlog.

 

[Alex321]

Just popping a tube in when using tubeless isn't necessarily as simple as replacing an existing tube.

True, but in this case, it should have been.

The leak in the tubeless was from around the valve, not a puncture as such.

The brand new tube then had a hole in it on the inside, quite close to the valve. There is no way it could have punctured naturally at that point.

And then the one my colleague brought in went in nice and easy, and inflated with no issues.

 

[livpoksoc]

So more updates - good news in all. The tyre held up overnight and on two occasions several hours apart, it showed 75psi on my digital gauge.

An interesting note is that there are now several holes and areas on the tyre that are seemingly 'sweating' sealant, but this must be the sealant doing it's job as the tyre is now holding air. I even wiped the protruding sealant away this morning, and the tyre has stayed up.

Next trial will be to actually fit it back on the bike and see how it goes with these repairs.

Am keeping everything crossed as if it works, that's a £50 saving of a tyre with plenty of miles in the tread!

The only fly in the ointment is the valve core just snapped. I think I have a spare in the drawer, so hoping to test it out properly tomorrow!

 

[PaulSB]

Not a broken record or helmet anti/compulsionist at all!

I work in the semiconductor industry maintaining million pound machinery so I know a little bit about repeatable reliability.

I also dabble in motorsport at clubman level (with trophies) so I know something about performance v dependability. I'm not sure who said it but a memorable quote from the F1 world that stuck with me many years ago was "to finish first, first you have to finish". Wise words!

I often ride multiple 100 miles a day rides (did LEJOG in 11 days earlier this year). I consider myself reasonably experienced at long distance riding which involves a varied terrain mix of gritty urban to remote rural and unsurfaced lanes. I do not generally experience punctures.

I commute by bike and get a rare puncture, usually when I am trying to squeeze the last few miles of life out of badly worn tyres. With tubes I can effect a rapid, simple repair and arrive at work with enough time to shower and dress before starting my shift.

NOTHING about the current tubeless technology appears to be compatible with any of these requirements. Ok, it works with MTB low pressures to prevent pinch punctures but for road bikes, nah! Far too many snags, pitfalls and failures for the real world. As it stands, tubeless for road bikes is little more than a fashion accessory. It might work for the odd few who are lucky or extremely anal about the set-up and maintenance but on the whole it is not ready for release.

I'll stick with my tubes thanks, but I'm not a luddite. I do have gears and disc brakes etc. Just choose your technology wisely!

I feel what you should have posted is "NOTHING about the current tubeless technology appears to be compatible with any of MY requirements." Your experience does not match my experience or that of the many people I ride with who use tubeless.

On my road bike I've completed +/- 8000 miles on Continental 5000s and on my winter/gravel bike 3595 miles using Schwalbe G-one Allround. I can be more precise about the gravel bike as the tubeless have been fitted from new. The road bike is on her third set of tyres and the gravel her second. Each bike has suffered one puncture which would not seal. Both were repaired in +/-5 minutes using a plug kit. Personally I cannot change a tube that quickly. Neither deflated completely in the way a tubed tyre would.

From memory the first time I replaced the Contis I found five sealed punctures across the pair.

With my road bike I had to change the valve type to solve an initial problem with leakage around the valve. I have also had to learn to park the bikes when not in use at either the 4 or 8 o'clock position which I don't regard as a major issue. I agree it can be a little tricky to achieve the initial seal to the rim but once done this isn't a problem. I don't experience excessive pressure loss compared to tubed tyres but I do inflate to my required pressure every two days as this is part of my pre-ride routine on any tyre.

My experience is I've encountered no major issues other than two punctures in +/-12,000 miles both repaired in minutes and faster than I can replace a tube. Clearly the system doesn't suit yourself but to write it off in the manner you have does little for your argument or the personal experience you present In favour of your point of view.

 

[Milkfloat]

I rarely reply to threads like this as they are full of people who have never used tubeless who are slagging it off or people who could not get it to work who think that nobody else can or should. All I will add to this thread is that if you have tried tubeless and given up, feel free to send me your tyres as I will put them to use without failures or complaints.

 

[Ajax Bay]

most of us DO get punctures reasonably often.

Oh no we don't!

my experience there is going from original tyres as fitted, which are often a skimp point on cheaper bikes (Schwalbe Tyrago on my hybrid), and which were quite lightweight race-designed tyres (Conti Grandsport Race) on my road bike.
On both those bikes I was getting loads of punctures.

Most of us (on here) run decent tyres, appropriate (robust enough) for their intended use. Not surprised your experience of tubed tyres was poor. Reading that experience across to 'most of us' is flawed.
And your recent woes do seem to add weight to Skolly's line of argument.

 

[livpoksoc]

I think it says something when I typed out the OP that I was braced for a comment from Ming the Merciless.

Anyway, shakedown ride just now. Quick 50 minute scamper, and the tyre held up fine and was the same psi as when I left.

 

[livpoksoc]

Some of you are pro, some are very anti tubeless. Either way I came here looking for advice on how to fix the problem, and I seem to have got it. One more cyclist back on the road, and that's the important thing.

Happy Christmas all!

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Not really a quick update in the end

You should read the long updates. Serialised into 5 or 6 paperbacks.