Two types of cheese.

[PpPete]

A couple of images to prove (if ever there was need) that cheap tools are really not worth it.

Both 6mm
X-tools - head completely rounded off

And a Rolson (cheap supermarket brand)
The plating came off, but it was so thin it didn't affect the use. Then, on a stiff bolt, the whole thing twisted.

 

[fossyant]

Hex keys must be quality, especially on small bike bolts.

 

[simongt]

Proof of the need to buy the best quality tools you can afford. It pays in the long run.
Example of 'run of the mill' Pozidrive screwdrivers which are forever rounding off and thus being rendered useless. I've invested in JIS screwdrivers which are much better quality.

 

[iluvmybike]

I've used Teng tools for donkey's years. They have a lifetime guarantee but never had to invoke that yet

 

[Blue Hills]

Proof of the need to buy the best quality tools you can afford. It pays in the long run.
Example of 'run of the mill' Pozidrive screwdrivers which are forever rounding off and thus being rendered useless. I've invested in JIS screwdrivers which are much better quality.

JIS screwdrivers have a different head from Pozidrive.
You've just been using the wrong screwdrivers for the job I think.
Nothing to do with quality.

 

[Blue Hills]

A couple of images to prove (if ever there was need) that cheap tools are really not worth it.

Both 6mm
X-tools - head completely rounded off
View attachment 606482

And a Rolson (cheap supermarket brand)
The plating came off, but it was so thin it didn't affect the use. Then, on a stiff bolt, the whole thing twisted.
View attachment 606484

I do have a fair few Park tools and other "quality" brands but must admit I'm a bit surprised by the Xtools issue - I have always found them pretty good. Their crank puller seems to be as good as the Park one from my experience.

 

[simongt]

You've just been using the wrong screwdrivers for the job I think.

Er, don't think so. Regardless of the supposed 'quality name', Pozidrive tips sooner or later wear down, requiring replacement of the whole tool. With old fashioned slot screwdrivers, at least they can be reprofiled many times using a simple file.
Problem with Pozidrive, they are deliberately designed to cam out, thus requiring exactly the correct size of driver and a particular sense of torque to fit and remove. Once they begin to eventually set in or seize, you're in trouble.

 

[numbnuts]

Most of the time it's down to poor quality steel, or poor hardening and tempering

 

[simongt]

Most of the time it's down to poor quality steel, or poor hardening and tempering

Check out The History Guy's YouTube about Pozidrive screws. It's very informative. I now use Robertson screws whenever possible. Cam one of those out and you're really going at it heavy handed - !

 

[Blue Hills]

Er, don't think so. Regardless of the supposed 'quality name', Pozidrive tips sooner or later wear down, requiring replacement of the whole tool. With old fashioned slot screwdrivers, at least they can be reprofiled many times using a simple file.
Problem with Pozidrive, they are deliberately designed to cam out, thus requiring exactly the correct size of driver and a particular sense of torque to fit and remove. Once they begin to eventually set in or seize, you're in trouble.

Simple fact is a fair few heads on a bike with japanese bits need JIS screwdrivers - new quality Pozidrives wouldn't have been suitable from day 1 - at least that's my understanding.

You can buy all sorts of JIS screwdrivers at all sorts of prices - JIS defines the profile not the quality as I understand it.

 

[simongt]

Simple fact is a fair few heads on a bike with japanese bits need JIS screwdrivers - new quality Pozidrives wouldn't have been suitable from day 1 - at least that's my understanding.
[/QUO

Apart from the 'needs' of mass production, Phillips / Pozidrive / JIS screws are mostly unnecessary. Slot screws will still do the job admirably for most purposes. But even our splendid DIY shop; Thorn's, stocks very little in the way of slot head screws now.
A bit worrying.

 

[raleighnut]

Yep 3 different types of cross head screws all with different shapes to them, use the wrong driver bit on the wrong screwhead and you'll wreck both.

 

[Ian H]

You can (mostly) get away with cheap spanners, sockets and pliers*, but it's not worth skimping on screwdrivers or socket drivers.

*except needle-nose & circlip.

 

[Blue Hills]

Yep 3 different types of cross head screws all with different shapes to them, use the wrong driver bit on the wrong screwhead and you'll wreck both.

yep - wrecked a screw on the back of one of my topoftherange shimano rapidfires by using the wrong cross-driver - hope to get in it eventually though early attempts to dremel a slot in the screw and extract have so far failed. At least I learned the lesson - ordered some JIS screwdrivers - they were cheap - but work fine.

 

[PaulSB]

I've been aware for a long time there are at least two different systems - I've heard the name Pozidrive before but not JIS. I've never known how to tell the difference. Is there a way to tell the difference?

I suspect all my screwdriver bits are badly mixed up. My tactic has always been to insert the driver head in the screw and twist it with my fingers. Usually I can feel I've got the right or wrong head/bit combination.