Ultimate N+1 (once in a lifetime buy) Carbon or Titanium?

[jayonabike]

I've got some inheritance coming my way in the next few months and I'm looking at getting a new bike. I want to spend as much as I can afford and get the bike of my dreams. I'm looking at spending around 5k, maybe a little more, so this will be a once in a life time never to be repeated buy. Bearing that in mind should I go for a Carbon Frame or a Titanium one? The bike will be my Sunday best, only used for club runs and solo blasts on dry days. I'm 6ft 2'' and weigh around 14 stone if that makes a difference.
I don't have a Carbon bike at the moment but a Alu frame/carbon forks Spesh Secteur, and a Steel frame/Carbon forks Dawes bike with full mudguards which is my wet weather bike. I've read all the horror stories on here about how Carbon bikes crack easily and watched the testing videos proving they don't.
I've looked at a couple of Titanium bikes, and the thing is, they all look the same, and dare I say it, a bit boring. Plus they come with Carbon forks so not a full Titanium bike (why is that?) There's a couple of lads in my club that ride Titanium bikes and their bikes don't seem to have any wow factor. Now don't get me wrong I do like the look of them, but they don't grab me by the balls if you know what I mean, and if I'm spending that amount of money I want my balls grabbed every time I ride it!
So you can see my dilemma, Carbon or Titanium?
Groupsets.
Next question, as this is the ultimate bike it must have the ultimate groupset, which for me is a Shimano one. Now I was thinking manual Dura-Ace but Ultegra Di2 is all over the place now.
I've chatted to various guys in various bike shops and come away with different opinions. One said go for Dura-Ace (my initial choice) it's really smooth gear changing and why bolt a heavy-ish battery on a super light bike which also spoils the lines. Another said go for Ultegra Di2 over the Dura-Ace every time, super smooth and precise gear changes and once set up wont need adjusting. So after asking professional advice I'm more confused than ever! I went to the Specialized concept store today and had a good look around and must admit the bikes with Di2, the battery did spoil the lines a bit, although probably something you would get used to.
So the bikes I've been looking at.
Cervelo S5
I like this 'aero' road frame, but as I don't race is it really needed?

Specialized Tarmac S-Works
I love this, it's the favourite bike I've been looking at and it has the fittings for Di2 (if I go down that route although Dura-Ace wouldn't look out of place!)

Enigma Excel
I saw this a few weeks ago as a frame, but I would have different wheels (cosmic carbones probably)

Van Nicholas Aquilo Di2
I haven't seen this in the flesh yet, just online.

So there you have it. All you cyclists on Carbon bikes, are they a purchace for life or do you see them as a bike you'll need to change in a few years?
Jay

 

[User482]

If it's a "bike for life" have you thought about stainless steel? You could have one hand-made to your specification...

I've not used Di2, but I'm told it's appreciably smoother than mechanical gearing.

 

[ianrauk]

I think if you choose carefully and sniff out some bargains (with perhaps a little bit more spondoolies) why not buy 1 of each, carbon and Ti? After all you are buying a once in a lifetime bike (s).

Apart from the VN Aquilo, Ti bikes are not really out and out racers are they?
You mentioned that TI doesn't have the WOW factor. That's because Ti bikes are usually modelled on the classic long day in the saddle bike look rather then the carbon funny racing shapes and angles bike look. So different strokes for different folks.

Have you checked out Rose bikes?
Their carbon/electronic gearing jobbies look the mutts nuts at fantastic prices for what you can get..

And ping Topcat1 about electronic shifting... he's the man in the know.

And good call by User482, get a bike made up for you. As per Rob Penn in that tv programme/book.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

My "ultimate" bikes would be handbuilt too and I'd have a "distance" bike, a "fast" bike, a "utility" bike etc.

That way I'd get far more for my money than just having one "uber" bike that spent more time in the garage than on the road.

And I wouldn't have top-of-the-range groupsets either, unless I was doing top-of-the-range cycling: too expensive to maintain in the long run.

Saying all that, I haven't got £5,000 burning a hole in my pocket...

 

[Andrew_P]

Specialized offer a lifetime guarantee on frames which might be an influence?

But all the Specialized Di2 set ups are really ugly as they just mount on the down tube, the best Di2 are built in so the main battery pack is hidden.

I would also want something fairly unique.

 

[jayonabike]

If it's a "bike for life" have you thought about stainless steel? You could have one hand-made to your specification...

I have thought about steel. I have spent many an hour looking at the Mercian website, but how would they compare weight wise to carbon/ti. As this will be used on club runs, I don't want to be left behind on a heavier (if they are that much heavier) steel bike.

I think if you choose carefully and sniff out some bargains (with perhaps a little bit more spondoolies) why not buy 1 of each, carbon and Ti? After all you are buying a once in a lifetime bike (s).

Apart from the VN Aquilo, Ti bikes are not really out and out racers are they?
You mentioned that TI doesn't have the WOW factor. That's because Ti bikes are usually modelled on the classic long day in the saddle bike look rather then the carbon funny racing shapes and angles bike look. So different strokes for different folks.

I like your thinking Ian, but I'm pushing my luck with what I am spending, upping the anti some what for 2 bikes isn't going to go down to well with MrsJ!!
With the Ti bikes, I do like the classic lines, it's just they're all a bit samey but I haven't ruled them out completely

 

[Alembicbassman]

Spending 5k on a bike and giving George Osbourne £1000 VAT makes me feel queesy

 

[Howard]

If I were to drop £5k on a bike I'd have the frame built to my spec, or specifically for my measurements with some kind of creative input. Frankly a Spec / Van Nic wouldn't cut it, by a long, long way. Even a Cervelo would be a bit of a dull choice. Colnago C59? Maybe.

For the ultimate N+1 I'd expect something exotic, one off, hand built: think Pegoretti / Demon / Mather / Feather / Lynskey / etc. Look at this for example.

 

[Andrew_P]

Thinking about it (which I shouldn't lol) I was musing over a Project One Trek bike and used their bike builder for the Domane http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/collections/custom_project_one/models

 

[User482]

I have thought about steel. I have spent many an hour looking at the Mercian website, but how would they compare weight wise to carbon/ti. As this will be used on club runs, I don't want to be left behind on a heavier (if they are that much heavier) steel bike.

I guess a stainless steel frame and carbon fork would be a pound heavier than carbon or Ti. An 18lb bike vs 17lb bike isn't going to make you any slower!

Do a google search for the hand made bicycle show for some nice examples. Robin Mather's creations are works of art - it's what I'd buy in your situation.

 

[dodgy]

Try to stop thinking about frame weights and try to think about frame properties. I'm lucky enough to own a quality Ti bike and a nice carbon bike, the carbon is slightly lighter but not enough to make a difference in times. The carbon is faster, quite a bit faster, but it's because of the stiffness of the bike.

You're the same height as me and about 3 years ago we'd be the same weight, too. I dropped a stone and a bit and am now under 13 stone, that's what I would be concentrating on but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get your shiny toys. Do both, buy the bike of your dreams by all means.

Just to confuse you even more, I hear that Ultegra Di2 is using a new iteration of the Di2 design (CAN-BUS) and it's highly likely that next year's Dura Ace will go to the same design. Meaning that if you buy Ultegra Di2 instead, you'll be able to upgrade parts of your groupset to Dura Ace as funds allow in the future. This year's Dura Ace Di2 is effectively likely to be obsolete if what I'm reading is right.

I must say that the idea of buying 2 bikes is quite compelling, you could buy a Dolan Ultegra Di2 equipped bike for around £2300, buy a Planet X Sram Red equipped Titanium bike for roughly £2000 and have change for a week in Mallorca (with bike).

 

[rb58]

I'm with Ian here. It's horses for courses. Ti is understated, whereas carbon tends to be more 'blingy' and in your face. (I generalise of course). If it's a bike for life, I suspect today's carbon bikes will be more prone to going out of fashion simply because of the wide variety of designs and the constant 'innovation' by the manufacturers. Whereas Ti bikes do tend to look the same (due to not usually being painted and following more traditional designs I suspect) and so may stay in fashion for longer. I generalise again. Of course, all that only matters if you care deeply for how it looks! What really matters is the ride, and try before you buy is going to be critical.

I'll declare my hand here, I have an Enigma. And I find the ride quality just brilliant - comfortable, but with a decent turn of speed when you put the power down. So, if I was spending £5k on a bike, I'd be off down to the Enigma factory in a shot to be measured up for a handbuilt, bespoke, British made Ti bike.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Get those nice people at Rourke to custom build you a Reynolds 953 stainless steel one

(aka wot User482 said)

 

[Bigsharn]

I'm going to throw it out there and mention a recumbent trike.

If it's a lifechanging amount of money though, I'd be inclined to get a fleet containing every bike I could possibly need (MTB for winter, Roadie, cargo trike).

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Next question, as this is the ultimate bike it must have the ultimate groupset, which for me is a Shimano one. Now I was thinking manual Dura-Ace but Ultegra Di2 is all over the place now...........the battery did spoil the lines a bit, although probably something you would get used to.

I run Di2 on all my bikes, you should never choose the Ultegra Di2 over the Dura-Ace Di2 they are not even close in terms of shifting performance once you live with them both for a while, the Dura-Ace is far superior imho.
The Dura-Ace is a better system with regards to hacking and modifying. My Venge has sprint buttons, top buttons and an internaly mounted seat post battery (gets rid of the ugly external battery mount, many bikes have) along with in bike charging. Although you can do this with Ultegra Di2, the CAN-BUS interface is chipped as such you have to destroy components to get the chip required for the system before doing any battery modifications.
Without a doubt Di2 is slick, I will never use traditional shifting again. I even have no issues shifting with the elliptical rotor ring I am running these days on it.

Having owned a couple of the bikes you list, I would take the Specialized given your choice based on the fact they have always given me a good service and support, unlike some of the brands you list.
That S-Works Tarmac is an awesome bit of kit as well, a really impressive all round bike imho.

You can see my venge, with internal battery and the loom and battery used below