Undertaking. A lack of awareness.

[Greenbank]

I've not got the time to go through your points just now,

Fair enough, I'm expected to work too. *looks round nervously*

but I have one quick point. Of the two cyclist who go through, did they both get through cleanly?

The first gets through cleanly (1).

The next unclips and I'm not entirely sure as it's obscured by the bloke on the bike with the yellow saddle who stops and then uses the pavement. After unclipping he scoots along although it's not clear whether his wheels goes up onto the pavement or not. I can't tell whether his wheels remained on the road the entire time or whether they strayed onto the pavement.

So, I'll concede that, the second person didn't get through amazingly cleanly, however that doesn't change my stance. If anything, by unclipping and scooting along (if he did remain on the road) it would save him the 1/4 of a second it would take to do that if it became necessary as per my escape strategy.

The third performs pedal-kerb-fail.

1. Note that by "cleanly" I don't guarantee that he completely avoided all contact with the bus. As I said above, it can often be useful to purposely make contact with the bus in order to make a safer pass.

 

[magnatom]

There are a lot of what ifs with this, but imagine that the stumbling cyclist didn't manage to unclip there (not an outrageous thing to happen as in the video he stumbles, he doesn't just decided to shuffle - watch it carefully), over he goes. Imagine at the same time or shortly afterwards the bus moves.

I've done risk assessments at work and we use a matrix. Down one column is likelihood of occurrence and down the other is Consequence. Each is graded 1 to 5.

Sure the likelihood of incident is probably small, but two out of three cyclists have had problems passing through the space. So I would score that a 2 or a 3 out of 5 (remembering that this doesn't mean it would happen often, just that it is a reasonable possibility). Consequence would undoubtedly be scored a 5. So for me, it's a no-brainer. Why take the risk for the sake of 5, 10, 15, 30 seconds?

 

[magnatom]

The first gets through cleanly (1).


1. Note that by "cleanly" I don't guarantee that he completely avoided all contact with the bus. As I said above, it can often be useful to purposely make contact with the bus in order to make a safer pass.

One other point with regards to this. I've seen buses with loose bolts, panels etc. What if his jacket/bag etc catches?

 

[tdr1nka]

I'm sick of all the impatience of drivers and cyclists alike.

For all the education available to drivers, wing mirrors still have blindspots and some cyclists should do well to remember this.
The simplest rule is never to put your safety at risk in the first place by undertaking large vehicles.

I would hang back in this instance as you can see the wheels on the bus are turned to move over to the left, there is an empty bus lane and the traffic is slow so you can pretty much assume the bus is going to move over as soon as the traffic clears ahead. Bus drivers are as fallible as the rest of us and do sometimes forget to indicate, something that also needs remembering.

Some more impatient bus drivers will inch(bounce)their buses forward in situations like this, had that happened while the cyclist was trying to unjam her pedal from the kerb, I'm sorry but she'd have been on the deck and shouting and it would be her own fault.

I'm sorry to rant but I've just got home having had a row with some pob that nearly ran into the back of me because I stopped at a red light and called ME the W*NK*R!?

 

[CotterPin]

You clearly are happy to accept a different level of risk to Magnatom, Greenbank, which is your prerogative. Two points, though:

Do you really feel the need to keep moving that pushes you through such gaps? What's wrong with waiting? This is not just aimed at you but at others on this forum as well.

Do you not feel that you might not have some responsibility to the person following you who sees you getting through a small gap in the traffic? I know that their safety is their own responsibility but as a new cyclist they might not actually be aware they are putting themselves in danger, a view that might be re-inforced by observing the actions of other cyclists ahead of them.

This is why I re-iterate what I mentioned before - the best thing everyone can do on this forum who is a regular commuting cyclist is to consider what their actions on the road might have other cyclists following them.

 

[Davidc]

The simplest rule is never to put your safety at risk in the first place by undertaking large vehicles.

That gets my vote!

I can't see any sense in risking being killed or seriously injured for anything, and for a 20 second time advantage up to the next obstruction - never.

The advice on this in Cycle Craft is worth reading,

 

[bryce]

Typical London commute. Now the sun is out you see more and more daft cycle commuters doing stupid things like this. Just have to praise (99% of) drivers for having the patience and awareness to deal with idiots like this.

 

[tdr1nka]

'Tis also that time of year to be keeping an eye open for 'the driver who is watching the girls rather than the road'.

 

[Greenbank]

You clearly are happy to accept a different level of risk to Magnatom, Greenbank, which is your prerogative. Two points, though:

Do you really feel the need to keep moving that pushes you through such gaps? What's wrong with waiting? This is not just aimed at you but at others on this forum as well.

As I said, in this specific situation, as I can see it in the video, yes.

If there wasn't a clear bus lane ahead of it then almost certainly no. I know there's no point squeezing through a gap to gain 5 yards, but this is more than 5 yards.

There are lots of other simple things that, if different, would stop me going up the inside. Just because I'd do it on this situation doesn't mean I would do it in every situation.

If I didn't undertake a single vehicle on my commute it would probably take me 45 minutes instead of 25. That's the nature of a main road London commute. I often see the same cars crossing Putney Bridge as I see when I turn off Parliament Square. They overtake me after traffic lights. Sometimes I'm undertaking cars whilst in a dedicated cycle lane, sometimes in a dedicated bus lane, sometimes I'm in primary position on the inside lane of a dual carriageway, sometimes I'm in secondary position on a reasonable wide single carriageway. Sometimes they're stationary, sometimes they're moving slowly in traffic. Most of the time I have enough space, sometimes I don't, but I assess the risk and decide what to do.

Overtaking them is no different although you tend to have to consider faster/bigger motorbikes going up the outside rather than the scooters who come up the inside.

I'm not saying I'm perfect (as can be seen by my viewpoint on the above video) but if you think that's bad then you should see some of the stuff I see on my commute every day. You'd wonder why there isn't a death each and every day.

Tell you what, I'll dig out the helmet camera tomorrow and film my commute. I'll happily accept comments on it.

Do you not feel that you might not have some responsibility to the person following you who sees you getting through a small gap in the traffic? I know that their safety is their own responsibility but as a new cyclist they might not actually be aware they are putting themselves in danger, a view that might be re-inforced by observing the actions of other cyclists ahead of them.

They're busy learning from the 200 or so people who I see every day who RLJ, ride on the pavement, ride over pedestrian crossings when people are crossing. This video is perfect evidence:-

One person stops (he of the camera).
How many go up the inside?
How many go onto the pavement?

Their safety is their own responsibility; that's part of riding a bike on the road. My 6 year old nephew comes out with the "But but but, he did it first" line, it's not a valid defence.

(And no, that 200 figure isn't an exaggeration. I see hundreds of cyclists on my commute and, at a guess, more than a third routinely ignore traffic lights.)

 

[CotterPin]

Like you, I cycle in London (from Islington through the City to London Bridge) so probably see similar incidents to you, including a depressingly high number of poor cyclists (jumping lights, etc). Which is why I think it is all the more important that the more competent cyclists amongst us set an example although I know it sounds old fashioned and seems ineffective in the face of the many cyclists who don't ride competently.

I would also urge even the most competent of us to get some cycle training. In many London boroughs it is free or at a minimal cost (I am afraid I don't know the situation outside London). I took some cycle training when I was learning to be a cycle instructor and it was such an eye opener. One of the key things I learned (which I was half-aware of) was that overtaking is preferable to undertaking in heavy traffic. It feels counter-intuitive being out there in the middle of the road, but as long as your reading the traffic carefully and anticipating what might happen, it is, in my view and from my experience on the training course, a better way to make progress than up the inside of the traffic.

Anyway, I think I have banged on enough for one day. I am off to enjoy the evening sunshine.

 

[Greenbank]

There are a lot of what ifs with this, but imagine that the stumbling cyclist didn't manage to unclip there (not an outrageous thing to happen as in the video he stumbles, he doesn't just decided to shuffle - watch it carefully), over he goes. Imagine at the same time or shortly afterwards the bus moves.

The first cyclist through doesn't unclip and doesn't experience any problems.

The second cyclist through unclips his left foot and scoots through (albeit slowly).

The third cyclist has already unclipped one foot (the right) by the time she (I think she is a she) draws level with the back of the bus. She unclips the other foot and tries to totter through the gap. Because of this she leaves the kerb-side pedal at the bottom of the stroke, this hits the kerb and she encounters trouble. Keeping one foot clipped in (ideally the right) would mitigate this, as would positioning the cranks horizontally after unclipping.

I've done risk assessments at work and we use a matrix. Down one column is likelihood of occurrence and down the other is Consequence. Each is graded 1 to 5.

Sure the likelihood of incident is probably small, but two out of three cyclists have had problems passing through the space. So I would score that a 2 or a 3 out of 5 (remembering that this doesn't mean it would happen often, just that it is a reasonable possibility). Consequence would undoubtedly be scored a 5. So for me, it's a no-brainer. Why take the risk for the sake of 5, 10, 15, 30 seconds?

You can't have it both ways. The video shows two out of three occurrences of something with little or no consequences, and no occurrences of something with ghastly consequences.

If you're rating the likelihood of an occurrence as 2 or 3, then the consequence of that action would only be a 1 or a 2 given that, from the evidence of that video, when the occurrence did happen there was little or no consequence.

I would agree that the consequence of something really serious happening would rate a 5, however the likelihood of it happening would only be a 1 since, from the evidence of the video and general figures of cycling related deaths. If it were anything otherwise we'd be hearing about 20 deaths per week.

 

[Unimaginative]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-lZPeAWye4

Thanks for posting the video, benborp. Prompts a thought that it might be useful for the video camera brigade to pool their resources to create a 'commuter newbie' guide showing good riding and bad riding with appropriate comments on why the footage is 'good' or 'bad'.

btw, haven't mentioned it on other threads, but thanks to all of you that do put in the time and effort to discuss the safety aspects of commuting as I've learnt (and am still learning) a great deal from you all.

 

[magnatom]

Greenbank,

I disagree that two out of three were of no consequence. One gets stuck, the other stumbles (it is a stumble). The consequence would have been if the bus had moved at that point. It didn't luckily.

There are things on our risk matrix that have a 5 for likelihood. That doesn't mean it will happen every day, but it does mean that it could easily happen if care isn't taken. Therefore, for something that is likely, care has to be taken to ensure that it doesn't happen often. Same goes for the risks in this clip. Passing a bus carefully when their is plenty of space good views etc reduces the overall risk. Cycle like that and the risk increases. So if cyclists didn't scoot down the left of buses/trucks etc then the few deaths that we hear of would be reduced.

Lee, apologies for this condescending tone, but I really couldn't give two hoots if I annoy you or not. I'm not trying to be condescending just trying to make my point as concisely as I can (I don't always succeed in that, I will admit). As for condescending, read the last paragraph in your last post for a good example.

 

[Eat MY Dust]

especially considering the amount of poor cycling and lack of awareness that is displayed in some of your vids.

That there's fighting talk!!

 

[Crankarm]

Magnatom, it won't be long before you and your fellow headcammers actually film a cyclist being either crushed or killed or both given the frequency you post these sorts of incidents . Isn't that really what every one is waiting for? The only reason people watch the WRC is to see a spectacular crash . To my mind these cyclists are muppets and good luck to them in their next life. They can continue doing as they do like headless chickens as long as they don't put my safety at risk. The only time I worry is when crossing traffic light junctions. About 2 years ago I was almost knocked off by one in Cambridge and treated to a torrent of abuse. I am now very wary at traffic lights and am now ready for any RLJ cyclist who crosses my path .

Keep up the good work Magnatom. Maybe the ITV Tonight programme would be interested in your and others’ footage. If you got footage of crushing I think the newspapers or TV companies would pay good money for it given the wider concern about poor cycling standards. This level of disregard for the law and safety is only something the cycling community can address itself. So by filming and shaming those who do it you might well be doing a greater public service because it shows that not all cyclists are arrogant, ignorant, selfish and lawless.

One query I have is about the frequently quoted “primary position”. I have never read Cyclecraft and TBH don't intend to but where on the road is the primary position? I have a suspicion it might right in the middle of the lane and if so does this not unduly hinder and delay vehicles behind? I only ask this as I cycle about a metre out in the nearside tyre track of car or where it is smoothest, frequently looking behind when I hear a car approaching. OK I don’t often cycle in London anymore but most large towns and other cities have similar traffic furniture. The only time I have had problems by cars coming/passing too close is when I don't look round or cannot hear cars because cycling into a headwind masks their sound. By the time a car passes me I have looked behind at least 3 times tracking it reaching me and also as it is passing. This really works and drivers are often a lot more courteous and give me a much wider berth as I know exactly what they look like and whether they are on the phone.... . Ok you say this is not practical in rush hour traffic. But it is if you want to survive. Sometimes my neck really hurts but it means that I am seldom cut up plus I get used to it strong neck muscles! Plus it is great practice for riding in a group in a straight line whilst checking out your rivals behind. So many cyclists I follow or see never ever look behind them to see what is happening. On the motorbike test it is compulsory before a rider makes any manouvre, failure to do so is a fail. Once you get into the habit it is no great effort. However I do think that riding right in the middle of the lane of the road causes more problems. The most I ever ride out is about 1/3 into the lane.

This last week the traffic has on the whole been very accommodating but it has also been quite light which could mean that schools are still off I suppose?