university choices

[Archie_tect]

Don't let her watch The Iron Lady....

 

[Red Light]

Nottingham, Warwick and Southampton?
*cough*

????

 

[Archie_tect]

There's an awful lot of snobbery about universities. I'm just bemused by the Russell Group status... as if that provides gravitas which implies if you're not in the Group then you must be inferior.

Ah, marketing and oneupmanship, don't you just love it?

 

[dellzeqq]

OK - I'll add my bias first; I'm an academic at an ex-Poly, but studied at an older university.

My suggestion here would be course first, university second. Too many applicants choose their university without knowing too much about the course and often regret it later.

A lot of ex-Poly's still have a vocational focus, certainly my area does in teaching marketing. All of my fellow academics have a practitioner background, whilst more traditional universities have a research basis. It's about personal preference.

couldn't agree more. I went to two ex-polys to study Architecture. I took my degree at South Bank, an institution with a dire reputation - the course was stupendous. I then went to Kingston, an institution with a very decent reputation, for my diploma. The course was so-so, although, given that I had my pick for the diploma and deliberately went for an easy life I've absolutely no complaints.

There's no substitute for research. Your kid is going to spend three years there, and the cost is so great that it's unlikely that she'll get a second go.

 

[marinyork]

good stuff bromp't. she loves languages and as oxford's ppe does not require a levels in the component subjects, she'll probably be doing french and maths at a level.

If one knows what one wants to do at A-level, I'd point out that all the maths book you'll ever need to teach yourself are out there in the wider world and these days if you don't like books you can get videos on youtube. I like very much what Bromptonaut says, but one of the problems will be that your daughter will be up against people at private and grammar schools where say even what some would uncharitably regard as 'mediocre' candidates on humanities courses will have been forced to do GCSE Maths 2 years 'early' and been drafted into doing A-level Maths 1-2 years 'early'.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

If one knows what one wants to do at A-level, I'd point out that all the maths book you'll ever need to teach yourself are out there in the wider world and these days if you don't like books you can get videos on youtube. I like very much what Bromptonaut says, but one of the problems will be that your daughter will be up against people at private and grammar schools where say even what some would uncharitably regard as 'mediocre' candidates on humanities courses will have been forced to do GCSE Maths 2 years 'early' and been drafted into doing A-level Maths 1-2 years 'early'.

probably true. however, the top uni's are awash with candidates with the right grades, it's the rounder individual that makes the difference. ppe at oxford wants the candidate to show how they've got an interest in politics and what they've done about it. my daughter will, by that time, have been a political activist, networked with local councillors and m.p.s as well as taking part in stuff at school. the fact that someone she knows from her school has been offered a place is both inspiring and encouraging at the same time. i'm sure there are plenty of people who will have done things that their private school has organised for them; but it's not stopped him and, looking at people like elizabeth truss m.p., the path of local comp to oxford to read ppe is a well worn one.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I then went to Kingston, an institution with a very decent reputation, for my diploma.

I understand all the best people study at Kingston.

 

[marinyork]

probably true. however, the top uni's are awash with candidates with the right grades, it's the rounder individual that makes the difference. ppe at oxford wants the candidate to show how they've got an interest in politics and what they've done about it. my daughter will, by that time, have been a political activist, networked with local councillors and m.p.s as well as taking part in stuff at school. the fact that someone she knows from her school has been offered a place is both inspiring and encouraging at the same time. i'm sure there are plenty of people who will have done things that their private school has organised for them; but it's not stopped him and, looking at people like elizabeth truss m.p., the path of local comp to oxford to read ppe is a well worn one.

If you think I'm concentrating on grades you're very wrong. I have met plenty of people who have done PPE ;-) and can tell you many previous politicians who have done the subject (that would be utterly boring here). I am pointing out how these candidates 'do it'. They get to spend longer time networking and doing activities by learning this stuff earlier and when they are 16/17 doing more extracurricular activities with the small amount of freed up time. It is one of the unfair bits in all this, it is why I am telling you this. Nor am I against bromptonaut's point about people deciding too early and perhaps even if he means it stressing people out unnecessarily. Plenty of people come to things later. Of course someone might point out that loading all this learning early stuff onto someone might spoil some of their teenage years and they might be right.

Truss nearly didn't make it to being an MP btw.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

thanks marin, all useful input. we're minded to get the experience in early, thus showing a long standing interest, not just a sudden interest that coincides with the summer prior to the admissions process. she stood in the school mock elections (during the last general election) when she just 11, and if she genuinely continues showing a passion for politics through the intervening years, it won't matter that some of the privateers have had a few extra hours to bone up when they're 17. the admissions people are probably masters of spotting the candidates that are given a leg up by their school. i'm sure she'll enquire of the chap she knows with the offer, what he did to stand out, and be sure to build on that.

one of our local labour councillors has been in contact with her suggesting what she can get involved with and do. she's too young to join the party and there's no election in the town for three years unless the coalition calls it a day. she might even have to bite the bullet and chat with our local m.p., who, i'm told, will arrange trips to the house of commons for young people with an interest in politics.

 

[dellzeqq]

I understand all the best people study at Kingston.

it was a bit like a finishing school. If I didn't know you better I wonder if you spent three years passing yourself off as a bit of rough to the young women on the interiors course.

 

[Archie_tect]

Only problem with long term planning for courses is that the pioneering research staff there now may not still be there in 3 to 5 years time. Just need to track the good ones!

 

[Yellow Fang]

There's a BBC article about the PPE course at Oxford.

 

[marinyork]

I know it sometimes sounds on here like I want everyone living in caves scribbling formula on cave walls with chalk, but it isn't the case .

Yes, you are right, this is a point about work experience for example for MPs and all that jazz at 16/17 vs after university and the now infamous internship. The stock held by academics/MPs/think tanks is different regards to these issues. For getting onto a university course admissions will look at work experience for an MP in a more suspicious light (especially with a lack of something else). Whereas if you've finished uni then it works the other way and it will be more useful for becoming an intern/researcher etc. Although it has to be said that some MPs have a strange gender bias in selecting their workers with the odd explanatory comment that might land them in trouble to listening ears ;-). Other MPs are known deliberately for taking on comprehensive work experience people.

The only other thing I would say to someone is don't feel inferior for having gone to a comprehensive.

 

[Becs]

The only other thing I would say to someone is don't feel inferior for having gone to a comprehensive.

+1, it didn't do me any harm (well actually that's not strictly true but it was good enough). In fact you could argue that getting 4As at A level is actually more of an achievement from a comprehensive than from a fee-paying school and may well be looked upon more favourably. I spoke to an admissions tutor for one of the colleges in Cambridge some time ago who said just that (and that he preferentially selected people from certain state-funded 6th form colleges that were "almost as good as public schools but still allowed them to meet their widening participation targets"). It would be well worth looking into which of your local, and not so local 6th form colleges have the best academic (and oxbridge entrance) track records. If you're anywhere within 50 miles of cambridge I'd recommend Hills Road, but then I am biased!

 

[Archie_tect]

I see [unintended?] patronising condescension continues to thrive...