I don't like the ever-growing trend for manufacturers to only offer bibtights with 'chamois' pads fitted. To me, it makes far more sense to wear padded bibshorts underneath, for two reasons: One saves on washing the whole bloomin' thing so frequently - if using mudguards or riding in the dry, bibtights over shorts can go multiple rides before needing to be washed. Since they tend to be more expensive than shorts of similar quality (especially with pads), I'd rather wear out through frequent washing the cheaper shorts, of which I and no doubt others have many. And what with the need for bibtights of different insulation/windproofing levels, one can avert the need for lots of each as one does need with shorts. If it's cold enough for bibtights then it's cold enough to benefit from the extra layer bibshorts underneath provide, especially around the areas demanding protection. So, whilst I do have several pairs of pad-free bibtights in different weights, I'm conscious there's an ever-decreasing range to choose from, and of course mine won't last forever, and could get torn badly at any time. Consequently, I'm curious to know what makes/models forum members are aware are available for unpadded bibtights in the following categories: standard Roubaix-type weight Roubaix-type weight with either windproof panels or heavier/extra fleece in strategic locations such as knees, crotch etc full-on super-insulating deep-winter weight Thanks.