V69 HEC can’t make it safely past a bike - Video Now Working
- Thread starter TwickenhamCyclist
- Start date
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Downward
Guru
- Location
- West Midlands
Mr Pig said:
Yeah once your commited going past park cars in a Car or on a Bike then the person coming the other way is the only one that can create space for you to get past.
PBancroft
Senior Member
- Location
- Winchester
Mr Pig said:
Hm.
I've just watched the video again. It seems that there is a gap which TC could have pulled into at the very moment the Audi becomes visible, however he was already out in that position in the road from overtaking another couple of vehicles and the Audi would have seen him coming and seen him in position.
I'd say this one was possible more 75/25 on the driver's side - yes, TC could have pulled over into the gap, but he was already performing the maneuver and the driver didn't even need to reverse. If she had simply stopped (even taking into consideration response time and braking distances) there would have been ample room for TC to get through.
But she doesn't stop - she slows down, but she doesn't stop. Heck, there's not even anyone behind her to make reversing difficult if she did decide that was the best course of action.
So TC may be at fault for not pulling over... but she has more than enough chance to prevent herself from driving into the railings.
Another way to think about it would be two cars - one is stopped in a line of traffic, and has blocked a junction. A silly thing to do, and a fault similar perhaps to TC's. The second car wishes to leave the junction, but cannot because it is blocked. Do they push their way through? No, of course not.
IMHO TC made a mistake at the beginning, but the car driver made a bigger one. The setup is something that can happen to anyone - the only thing different I personally would have done once that situation had developed would have been to have stopped and spoken with the driver. I would have kept my distance, sure, but I would have stopped.
Mr Pig said:
To be fair MrPig, TC was well into the maneuver when the car appears. I know kaipath has mentioned that there was a gap, but it was right next to TC when the car appeared and would have required a swerve and emergency stop to enter the space.
MrPig, I agree that it is possible for cyclists to be too blinkered to the cyclists cause, I know I have come across a few that are. In fact at Pedal for Scotland there was one incident at a roundabout where I heard a few cyclist grumping at car drivers, where in fact, it was obvious it was the cyclist at fault.
However, in this situation I think TC did all that he could to hold his space, which was the correct thing to do when space was tight. I would quite rightly point out if I thought TC was wrong here (I'm sure he would to me, and probably has), but he did nothing wrong here.
The driver didn't see a cyclist, she saw a space.....
Mr Pig
New Member
- Location
- North Lanarkshire
No, just pro-sense, anti-moron. And as you're slandering me as anti-cyclist that mean you! Both cyclists and car drivers are human beings who make mistakes all the time but don't like to admit it.
Yes. Had the car driver been paying more attention she might have seen him earlier and stopped to let him through. In this situation, where he already has the road, most drivers would have let him through. I think she was dozing.
However had he been cycling over the right a bit more he would've seen further round the bend, as well as being clear of the car doors. On the video he says himself that he should've taken a more dominant position on the road.
He also lambastes the driver for being a "poor judge of space" whilst he too makes no effort to slow down when he sees the car coming. They both slow at the same time, at the last minute! They're as bad as each other.
The point being that, with the roads being clogged up the way they are, these things happen and it's not necessarily anyone's fault. In my opinion the small size and high manoeuvrability of a bicycle makes it easy for us to play the grown up and make a space to remove the blockage. Yesterday my mate and I met a tanker lorry on a narrow back road. We both jumped off and pulled our bikes onto the verge and waved him passed. Now which driver do you think is more likely to have a slightly more positive attitude towards cyclists today, the truck driver or that car driver? Take your time...
PBancroft
Senior Member
- Location
- Winchester
Mr Pig said:
To be completely fair, TC is right at the very end of the row of parked cars when the Audi forces him to stop - an extra half second and he would have been beyond them, as opposed to a marginally longer time if he had stopped and pulled his bike in or the much longer (and much costlier) solution that was arrived at.
As I said in my earlier post, I think TC could have pulled into that gap (with an emergency stop, granted, but this is on a bike so its doable) but he didn't and he was at the end of the maneuver not the start of it.
The driver could have stopped to give TC the space to get past, but she didn't. She has plenty of time to do so - there's about five seconds between when she first becomes visible and blocking TC and starting the maneuver, not an emergency stop by any stretch of the imagination.
I think both parties had a momentary lapse of judgement, but it is the car driver on this occasion who took it beyond the moment. Seriously, watch it again - they are either in a rush to get somewhere or have a superiority complex or something... they simply keep on coming.
Mr Pig
New Member
- Location
- North Lanarkshire
The car driver scrapes her car on the fence, in other words she absolutely could not have moved her car further over! The cyclist doesn't make any attempt to move out of the way. He just sits there. How hard would it have been for him to pull his bike over the left, really?
OK. I've looked at the clip again. What strikes me is the 'apparent' speed of aproaching car, to what is obviously a pinch point. It is always difficut to judge this from a video, but it looks like the car approaches very fast for what is a very tight pinch point. I really don't think TC has much time to react and does the safest thing and stops. It looks like space is tight, but I agree that there is probably space for TC to move over, which I am sure he would have done, given a chance. However, the car starts to move before he can and if I was him, I would do the same and stay where you are, as you can never be quite sure what the car will do. That way he leaves his options open.
If for example the car turns quickly to avoid the fence, it might be possible that the tail end of the car could hit you if you start shuffling. A small risk, granted, but the driver has made the decision to move off and so has force the hand.
If I was the car driver and had made the initial mistake, I would have waited until it was safe to pass, which it obviously wasn't at that point (she scrapped the car, no-one else did).
Anyway, that is my take on it.
If for example the car turns quickly to avoid the fence, it might be possible that the tail end of the car could hit you if you start shuffling. A small risk, granted, but the driver has made the decision to move off and so has force the hand.
If I was the car driver and had made the initial mistake, I would have waited until it was safe to pass, which it obviously wasn't at that point (she scrapped the car, no-one else did).
Anyway, that is my take on it.
PBancroft
Senior Member
- Location
- Winchester
Mr Pig said:
I did not suggest that the driver could have moved further over. I'm not entirely sure that anyone has.
On the other hand, how hard would it have been for the driver to stop for a second?
Mr Pig
New Member
- Location
- North Lanarkshire
magnatom said:
Yes, it looks like she failed to see the cyclist, just not paying much attention. I also agree that she could easily have stopped, I would have.
But I also think that if I was on the bike I would have made more of an effort, some effort, to get out of he way.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke UK
TC maintained his postion and kept himself visible. The danger in pulling in is that the VW/Audi driver, who's not reacting to his presence, has actually not clocked him at all and will continue until she clips him. As he says himself, he may not have been assertive enough!
Like Mr Pig I was taught that you gave way if the obstruction was on your way. Worked fine in the sixties when parked cars were in clumps of two/three, but less well when you've passed 13 out of 15 and (as happened to Mrs
some twonk in a 4*4 insists you back up!
Like Mr Pig I was taught that you gave way if the obstruction was on your way. Worked fine in the sixties when parked cars were in clumps of two/three, but less well when you've passed 13 out of 15 and (as happened to Mrs
some twonk in a 4*4 insists you back up!
What a baffling discussion.
Bike is nearly through the pinch point, at a safe-ish distance from parked car doors.
Oncoming vehicle comes into view. Bike either has to stop and hold his ground or, instead, move into the parked car door zone. The former is reccomended practice, the later is insane.
The oncoming car, rather than to stop for a second or to slow down sufficiently for both vehicles to bass safely, went straight forward and incurred damage as a result.
Move to get out of the way and the car driver (who clearly has no concept of judging space, as evidenced by hitting the railing) will not move over. This ain't complicated, its why we take a prominent road position. Move over in this scenario and she's more likely to hit you, its really that simple.
TC couldn't see the oncoming car at the beginning of the narrow bit because he got there first and the car wasn't there, whereas the motorist could see the cyclist in there before she entered. It isn't complicated, you don't move into road space if in so doing you're going to either wreck your vehicle or hit someone.
No brainer.
Bike is nearly through the pinch point, at a safe-ish distance from parked car doors.
Oncoming vehicle comes into view. Bike either has to stop and hold his ground or, instead, move into the parked car door zone. The former is reccomended practice, the later is insane.
The oncoming car, rather than to stop for a second or to slow down sufficiently for both vehicles to bass safely, went straight forward and incurred damage as a result.
Move to get out of the way and the car driver (who clearly has no concept of judging space, as evidenced by hitting the railing) will not move over. This ain't complicated, its why we take a prominent road position. Move over in this scenario and she's more likely to hit you, its really that simple.
TC couldn't see the oncoming car at the beginning of the narrow bit because he got there first and the car wasn't there, whereas the motorist could see the cyclist in there before she entered. It isn't complicated, you don't move into road space if in so doing you're going to either wreck your vehicle or hit someone.
No brainer.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Come on, no need to be a dumb bass now!!
LOL!
LOL!
