VED to become a legitimate road tax?

[Lanzecki]

You guys talk much sense. Stick it on fuel and the amount you pay is directly proportional to the efficiency of your vehicle and your mileage. No mess, no fuss, no dodging,

hang on, if it's that good an idea I claim to have voiced the idea first. What prize do I get?

 

[classic33]

Motorways are a relativly new thing in Ireland, built along/alongside the former "N" roads. However not all are toll roads. Those that are, were designed from the outset to be Toll Roads. Hue & cry over their construction because they were funded from the public purse, with the money going into private hands.
Every Irish citizen will be paying for the next 40 years because of the construction of the Toll Roads. Whether they pay tax or not.

On the point of "gaining" a VED/VD disc for a bike. The figure quoted by the DVLA's office in Leeds was £20-£25. The rest being made up from increases in that paid by the owners of motor vehicles.

On the point of registering pedestrians & horses. Modes of transport that are alive are exempt. Exact wording escapes me, I'll have to get it from the person that pointed it out. One question. How would you complete the form when it came to make & model?

Put it on the fuel & I'd say there'd be an increae in the number of make offs without payment.

 

[martint235]

Put it on the fuel & I'd say there'd be an increae in the number of make offs without payment.

Just deploy bollards, barriers or stingers at the exit to the petrol station.

 

[Lanzecki]

On the point of "gaining" a VED/VD disc for a bike. The figure quoted by the DVLA's office in Leeds was £20-£25. The rest being made up from increases in that paid by the owners of motor vehicles.

OK, my point still stands. The minimum cost for registering bikes would have to be break even.

On the point of registering pedestrians & horses. Modes of transport that are alive are exempt. Exact wording escapes me, I'll have to get it from the person that pointed it out. One question. How would you complete the form when it came to make & model?

Or fuel type : Hay.

I'd suggest the wording you are looking for is : by right. Cyclists and horses use the road by right. Motor vehicles use it by licence.

Put it on the fuel & I'd say there'd be an increae in the number of make offs without payment.

It's always interested me that fuel is one of the few things you can take before paying. While pre paying seems strange, why should it be a problem? the only issue is if you want a full tank. But then again we all know the rough capacity of a tank. And who can afford a full tank these days.

 

[GlenBen]

Working in a petrol station myself, I have to agree with you Lanzecki. The problem with 'drive offs' is much bigger than many people actually realise. It only takes a rise of a few pence or be a few days away from payday and perfectly rational, respectable people just swap personalities and decide they want to steal £80. I feel as though I mention prepay pumps almost daily. It would be simple enough to pay what you want to pay, then the pump cuts out at that amount. But, its all cost in installing a system like that, one which isnt deemed cost effective as the money from thefts is reclaimed 99% of the time anyway.

Also a point for whoever mentioned cyclists should ask to pay roadtax, what about those people who have to cycle to work, short of walking its the only free way to travel these days and I know of a lot of people who wouldnt even afford to get to work if cyclists had to pay some form of tax.

 

[Lanzecki]

Working in a petrol station myself, I have to agree with you Lanzecki. The problem with 'drive offs' is much bigger than many people actually realise. It only takes a rise of a few pence or be a few days away from payday and perfectly rational, respectable people just swap personalities and decide they want to steal £80. I feel as though I mention prepay pumps almost daily. It would be simple enough to pay what you want to pay, then the pump cuts out at that amount. But, its all cost in installing a system like that, one which isnt deemed cost effective as the money from thefts is reclaimed 99% of the time anyway.

We have 2 petrol stations (owned by the same private company) locally. They have the usual CCTV number plate readers installed, but have recently installed a system that checks the number plates against a database of known drive offs. This stops the employee initiating the flow of fuel. The driver is required to pre-pay (all pumps can be used in the tradational or pre-pay way). I did the network cabling to the system, but I know little else.

I don't know if this system is used anywhere else, but I guess it was worth the cost installing to the owner.

I'm surprised that pre-pay wasn't build into the pumps from the day they were built.

I still cannot think of anything that you can take before paying for it.

Also a point for whoever mentioned cyclists should ask to pay roadtax, what about those people who have to cycle to work, short of walking its the only free way to travel these days and I know of a lot of people who wouldnt even afford to get to work if cyclists had to pay some form of tax.

I did mention it, but more as a "It would have to be charged at a minimum break even cost of xxx". The point being that the cost of administration would mean that either a registration free would be subsidised or it would be 25-30 per disc. Not to mention the cost of policing it, and deciding what type of bikes need registering. And to do that you'd need to actually define a bike in law (if it's not done already). Is a toddle bike actually a bike with a view for registration?

Would you have to register your 2 year old's 1st tricycle?

The point was made earlier that apart from the admin and enforcement costs less people would ride bikes. As bikes, pedestrians and horses use the road's by right, and motor vehicles by licence, there would have to be a massive change to UK law to change a bike from a 'right' to a licenced mode of transport. This would potentially impart extra rights to the cyclist that the government might not like? Change and effect.....

If this was Ireland we'd be talking about someone would challenge that right in the courts. But then again Ireland has a constitution.

 

[martint235]

I still cannot think of anything that you can take before paying for it.

Meal in a restaurant is the obvious one. Or a drink in one of the more civilised bars.

My continental friends still find it strange that here not only do you pay for your beer before you drink it, you have to go and fetch it yourself!

 

[Piemaster]

I still cannot think of anything that you can take before paying for it.

Ever been in a supermarket? Take stuff off the shelves before you pay for it, the equivalent to a drive-off would be then trying to make off with the basket/trolley. Buy it online and you'll pay before you have it delivered. Look at it from that angle and it's more unusual to pay before you take charge of it. Does that make a drive off a form of shoplifting? Dunno..

Always have to pay for a car before you take it away though.