Velobuild and Chinese unbranded carbon frames

[Monsieur Remings]

Okay, I'm all set to buy on a group buy and get my hands all dirty. I like the idea that there are some carbon frames out there that are completely unbranded and the Velobuild forum - offering group buys - reduces the price whilst simultaneously increasing the insurance or clout with the other end - any defects found in a wholesale buy of a single frame type. Plus, you have feedback from people all over the world who've bought, built and ridden the very same frame.

But, I'm very inexperienced, has anyone had a go at this? I'm not planning on building wheels - I have a spare set of Planet X 60mm which will suit the project I have in mind - but everything else at first seems very daunting. I think as of next week I'll have the logistical support of a very experienced bike builder as well as a mate who can help, but I'm very interested in other people's experiences of building a bike from scratch...?

What was it like for you first time? Did you make hideous mistakes, take your time, have anyone to back you up?

As an aside, I'm probably in the foreseeable future always going to be on the budget side of things regarding bikes and this calls for some ingenuity. Besides, I've been researching the non-cloned Chinese 'stealth' frames on and off for well over a year now, and I don't think it's the same thing as buying a 'Pinarello' frame and fork on DH gate for a 6th of it's 'true' value. Likewise however, the prices for the top end frames are quite clearly not representative of the true value of production.

Thanks for any input...

 

[Cycleops]

Never built from scratch so can't really comment, but you will need quite a few tools.Building a bike this way can often be quite expensive as you will have to buy everything new so don't expect it to be a cheap exercise. Good luck.

 

[Cyclopathic]

Never built from scratch so can't really comment, but you will need quite a few tools.Building a bike this way can often be quite expensive as you will have to buy everything new so don't expect it to be a cheap exercise. Good luck.

I'm sure it's not that bad. I heard that one could build a modern carbon framed bike to a high spec, from scratch with a bone spanner, a pair of pliers and a screwdriver. (Banging the screwdriver into hex bolts can also negate the need for an allen key)

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

I have some experience with this and have researched a fair bit...............

Was all set to build a "Stealthy" bike through Velobuild. Even ordered with a group buy for the FM098 frame, forks, bars and seatpost.
Everything seemed to be to good to be true and sadly in my case it was.

I ordered early January as i was told my the Mod (i won't name) that they are all in stock so a standard finish would be a fast delivery. Happy with this so i ordered. Didn't receive confirmation for over a week and when i did they had mixed up the order. Worth noting at this point that when you buy through Velobuild you actually end up dealing with the Chinese manufacturer not directly with Velobuild. Their English is as good as your Chinese.
A further week passed where there was 5 emails exchanged in an attempt to get the correct order confirmed.
Nearly lost my hair during this period!!
Once we got to the bottom of this i was then told the order would be sent out early Feb. This didn't happen and to cut a long story short i posted an update on the forum (an honest one) and had my access revoked shortly after posting. The post merely said that i was unhappy with the constant setbacks and what was everyone else's experiences? They removed the post within an hour and stopped access. They left up all the good posts i had left. In short they appear to regulate what is posted which is worrying in itself.

I asked for a refund as they then said the order would be closer to March now and this was unacceptable imo.
The refund, according to Velobuild, had nothing to do with them so i had to slog it out with Dengfu who took nearly a month to refund. This took a paypal complaints procedure and even then they wanted me to pay paypal tax of $30.

In the end i got my money back and bought a Ribble R872. The main reason i did this is that if something is to go wrong then i only have to deal with Ribble and not some stranger half the world away who can only communicate via email, for some reason.

Pro's of buying Chinese:
Cheaper than uk
No branding making unique build


Cons of buying Chinese:
Warranty? Imagine the problems with this! They all say that once you have signed they will not return damaged items.
Quality control? You won't ever know until it arrives. Read the forum and see how many people have had a frame turn up in a real mess.
Trust. Can you trust the bike is made to the correct standards? Will it niggle you that the fork could snap off at 40mph because it was filled with paper to cover damage?

The bottom line for me as to why i will never buy a bike from such a distance is twofold, A) The breakdown in communication and B) If it does go wrong what is your warranty worth? They were happy to ignore me for weeks on end and i never even received the product. Just gave them my money for 2 plus months!

Some people have had positive experiences and maybe some will post on here to even the perspective. Bottom line will be to go with your gut.

 

[GIOS]

I always build my bikes from scratch and have never had any issues. My first carbon build is now under construction (Hong-Fu FM001 Chinese bulk frame) to see is carbon really my thing or should I go Ti. I'd say the most annoying parts of the build are fork cutting & headset installation. If you mess up here, the whole frame could be gone. The only things I've managed to destroy so far are my knuckles and one Campagnolo Centaur brake lever hood. Personally I don't have that much knowledge on Chinese unbranded products besides the carbon frame I found in this blog. The blog is written by a finnish guy with loads of unbranded china stuff... thought it could be useful for you.

 

[derrick]

No probs here, but i am a mechanic, so have had a lot of experience with nuts and bolts, take your time you tube is handy, you do need to be careful with carbon do not over tighten anything, a torque wrench could be a good investment, if not sure ask someone who knows, good luck.
Never built a cheap Chinese frame thou.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Meant to say RE building the bike that you should defo do it. You will learn so much in the process. You might even enjoy it too!!

 

[Cycleops]

In the end i got my money back and bought a Ribble R872. The main reason i did this is that if something is to go wrong then i only have to deal with Ribble and not some stranger half the world away who can only communicate via email, for some reason.

The joy of quality is remembered long after the initial euphoria of low price is forgotten.

 

[smokeysmoo]

PM gb155 MR, he's built about 3 CCF frame bikes up. He's never encountered any problems, (that he'll admit too), and all have apparently ridden great.

As for building a bike though, it's a doddle. I've done a few now, new builds, re-builds, resto's, conversions, and the joy of standing back at the end knowing you've done it is a great one TBH

Remember, CC and YouTube are your friends in these matters, and I'd be flabbergasted if you managed to find a problem that couldn't be sorted.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

The joy of quality is remembered long after the initial euphoria of low price is forgotten.

Wise words.

 

[derrick]

The joy of quality is remembered long after the initial euphoria of low price is forgotten.

That's why i bought a Cervelo, i have to keep getting out of my chair to check it's still there.

 

[bicyclos]

Its good fun building from scratch and you can scout for parts which are discounted and get some bargains. Inner and outer cables you can buy in bulk and cut your outers to your desired length. I designed and built a swb recumbent as a project a number of years ago now which was great fun to do. I know its not a carbon stealth frame but it was lighter than my commuting bike but slightly lower on hills but faster on the flat and downhill.

All you have to watch out for if the parts are compatible with each other especially the crank width / chainwheel etc....

 

[PatrickPending]

Built three bikes from scratch now, well I guess one was more of a frame/drivechain change. Its easy and satisfying - you end up with something unique and to your exact specifications. Though it may not necessarily be the cheapest option if I were looking for another bike I'd do it from scratch.

Get a good bike stand though - they don't necessarily cost much - mine was about £60 from Ribble, it helps a lot!

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Excellent, many thanks for all the replies. The last time I checked there weren't any!

A good balance of opinion here and this is what I'm after. I have to say in regards to the forum, I've noticed a tendency for posts to disappear too and you're right Pedro, that is worrying. Funnily enough, the FM-098 is probably the frame I'd go for.

Being very inexperienced I do want to have a go but am conscious of not wanting to make expensive mistakes and have considered ordering the parts and getting someone else to do the build.

On Wednesday I'm visiting a longstanding member of the forum who has been building these frame for 5-6 years. Coming from a bike building background I guess he knows his stuff and I'm interested in what he has to say and this will probably determine what way I go.

I have a friend who bought what I understand to be a cloned Pinarello, all painted up like the 'real thing'. I don't doubt it's probably made by the OEM and could either be a genuine second or from a mold that would no longer pass quality control. Either way, he's been riding it for over a year - raced it and did the Etape with me last year on it. BUT, I didn't want to go down this line due the risk and felt that the numbers of people online at places like Velobuild were testament enough as to the quality of the stealth products - almost as if being unbranded and having to put them together yourself, as well as cutting out the middlemen along the line and the price reduction in a group buy, were the reasons enough for such a huge differential in price.

But I will take on board what you're all saying and thanks.

I do remember however, as an aside, that when I bought my first carbon ride - a Ribble New Sportive - there seemed a lot of negative press concerning Ribble as a budget make. Now that they get very high ratings in the reviews you find, everyone seems to have stopped having a go at them and I can't help thinking there could be the same snobbery regarding these frames in some quarters (I don't include you in that Pedro)? Maybe in order to justify the high price of frames alone people felt the need to have a go, I don't know.

I guess the issue for me is if I have to spend more money on a frame it leaves less for everything else, and that everything else includes a few more tools creating even more of a false economy.

Thanks again folks. Anyone else?

 

[derrick]

You need to get the right frame, everything else can be upgraded when you can afford to do so, it's nice to have a bit of Carbon. Good Luck with the build.