# Vets on Standard - explain please?

#### Fubar

##### Legendary Member
Hi

Can any of you knowledgable TT people explain how to calculate a Vets on Standard award?

I have "inherited" the awards responsibility for our club and while I have most of the rest of the results this is a bit of a mystery to me - asking around it seems a total mystery to everyone else as well!

I've downloaded the Standard Tables from the VTTA website so can see the times to be added for each age group, but is that compared to a previous best time for the rider (plus the previous standard) or a standard VTTA time? And our award seems to be over 10, 25, 50 and 100 so do I need to add all these together with the Standard Times??

If anyone can explain this in words of 2 syllables or less I'd be most appreciative! Cheers, Mark

#### Rob3rt

##### Man or Moose!
You take the distance and age of the rider, and look up their standard time. You then take their result and subtract the standard time from it. If someone beats their standard, they have a negative value. The person with the lowest value (or most negative) is the winner on standard.

Check your awards rules to check if the awards are given for seperate distances or if it is an all rounder type of award.

There are various ways of working out all rounder type of awards. Normally you take a riders average speed over each distance, add them together and then divide by the number of distances (in this case 4). This isn't a true average and favours riders who do well in shorter events, but it is the way it is done usually. As you are working to vets standards, it is unlikely you are going to be doing this, due to the modified times. So it might well be that you just need to add up all of the times and the lowest (or most negative) wins. It really depends on your clubs rule book as to how you do it.

OP

#### Fubar

##### Legendary Member
You take the distance and age of the rider, and look up their standard time. You then take their result and subtract the standard time from it. If someone beats their standard, they have a negative value. The person with the lowest value (or most negative) is the winner on standard.

Check your awards rules to check if the awards are given for seperate distances or if it is an all rounder type of award.

There are various ways of working out all rounder type of awards. Normally you take a riders average speed over each distance, add them together and then divide by the number of distances (in this case 4). This isn't a true average and favours riders who do well in shorter events, but it is the way it is done usually. As you are working to vets standards, it is unlikely you are going to be doing this, due to the modified times. So it might well be that you just need to add up all of the times and the lowest (or most negative) wins. It really depends on your clubs rule book as to how you do it.
Ah right, so the standard times ARE the standard times set for those distances!?! I thought that was a handicap that needed added/subtracted to their time

From the results I have there are only 2 who have ridden all 4 distances and not knowing how to calculate it has been very frustrating.

what I think I will do is calculate it over the 4 distances separately then speak to the Chairman for the way our club awards it before submitting the trophy for engraving!

Many thanks for your help! Kind regards, Mark

#### Rob3rt

##### Man or Moose!
Ah right, so the standard times ARE the standard times set for those distances!?! I thought that was a handicap that needed added/subtracted to their time

From the results I have there are only 2 who have ridden all 4 distances and not knowing how to calculate it has been very frustrating.

what I think I will do is calculate it over the 4 distances separately then speak to the Chairman for the way our club awards it before submitting the trophy for engraving!

Many thanks for your help! Kind regards, Mark
The standard times are "expected" times if you like. So you are comparing a riders actual time against their expected time. So you are looking for the rider who either exceeds expectation by the largest amount, or if no rider exceeds expectation, the rider who achieves a time closest to the expected time.

Example (hopefully my arithmetic is okay, hah).

40 year old, male, 10 miles

Expected time is 00:25:59, taken from the VTTA tables.

Rider A's actual time is: 00:26:03, their time on standard is +00:00:04
Rider B's actual time is: 00:24:30, their time on standard is -00:01:29
Rider C's actual time is: 00:27:30, their time on standard is +00:01:31

The winner is Rider B, 2nd Place goes to rider A, 3rd place to rider C.

OP

#### Fubar

##### Legendary Member
The standard times are "expected" times if you like. So you are comparing a riders actual time against their expected time. So you are looking for the rider who either exceeds expectation by the largest amount, or if no rider exceeds expectation, the rider who achieves a time closest to the expected time.

Example (hopefully my arithmetic is okay, hah).

40 year old, male, 10 miles

Expected time is 00:25:59, taken from the VTTA tables.

Rider A's actual time is: 00:26:03, their standard time is +00:00:04
Rider B's actual time is: 00:24:30, their standard time is -00:01:29
Rider C's actual time is: 00:27:30, their standard time is +00:01:31

The winner is Rider B, 2nd Place goes to rider A, 3rd place to rider C.
Brilliant - thanks for the clear explanation, I think I get it now! Was picturing a mass disagreement/brawl at our annual prize giving! Cheers, M

#### Rob3rt

##### Man or Moose!
Why not just say that the quickest vet wins!
Because a vet is someone classed as 40 years or older, how is a 70 or 80 year old going to compete with that!

OP

#### Fubar

##### Legendary Member
Why not just say that the quickest vet wins!
I think it's an attempt to "even out" the field so a 70 YO can compete against a 40 YO.

#### ColinJ

##### Puzzle game developer
Because a vet is someone classed as 40 years or older, how is a 70 or 80 year old going to compete with that!
Oh, I see - different standards by age rather than just one standard for all vets!

#### Rob3rt

##### Man or Moose!
Oh, I see - different standards by age rather than just one standard for all vets!
Yup: http://www.vtta.org.uk/information/standardstables.php

In my example, I kept it simple with 3 x 40 year old male riders, to show how the calculation is worked and how the positions are decided. In reality the riders will be of various ages, so you need to look up the standard time for each of them and do the calculations on a rider by rider basis.

It could have been the case that rider C was a 70 year old male, his standard time (taken from the VTTA tables) would have been 00:29:02, with the same actual time of 00:27:30, his adjusted time would have been -00:01:32, as such they would have been the winner. With Rider B 2nd and Rider A 3rd (assuming rider A and B were 40 year old male riders still).

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#### Joshua Plumtree

##### Approaching perfection from a distance.
Am I the only one thinking that 29.02 for a 70 year old is a cracking time.
Just be happy to get out of the armchair unassisted at that age!

#### ColinJ

##### Puzzle game developer
Am I the only one thinking that 29.02 for a 70 year old is a cracking time.

Just be happy to get out of the armchair unassisted at that age!
70 isn't that old these days!

I'd have a go at that time. Just give me 11 years to train for it ...!

#### Rob3rt

##### Man or Moose!
Am I the only one thinking that 29.02 for a 70 year old is a cracking time.
Just be happy to get out of the armchair unassisted at that age!
I know a 70 year old who does 21's. I did a local 2-up with him (25 miles), we got round in 57:44 to win the event on standard.

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#### Rob3rt

##### Man or Moose!
@Fubar Check which way round the subtraction is, since looking at some results, I may have done it the wrong way round in my example. But I am sure you now get the idea, so once you check which way round it is, you should have no problem working out the results and understanding who won

#### Ian H

##### I am an ancient randonneur, & I stop often for tea
Just to confuse the issue, CTT provides its own standard times, which are different to the VTTA's. Good, innit.