Vets on Standard - explain please?

[Fubar]

@Fubar Check which way round the subtraction is, since looking at some results, I may have done it the wrong way round in my example. But I am sure you now get the idea, so once you check which way round it is, you should have no problem working out the results and understanding who won

Thanks, I've sent my calculations away for checking! Cheers, Mark

 

[Fubar]

Just to confuse the issue, CTT provides its own standard times, which are different to the VTTA's. Good, innit.

Shhh, I don't need to know that...

 

[ColinJ]

Are these 'standard times' specific to particular courses?

(If not, then the concept seems flawed to me!)

 

[screenman]

Are these 'standard times' specific to particular courses?

(If not, then the concept seems flawed to me!)

It has a few problems but it is a fair way to do things. Why when it is about age should the course come into it, as the riders have a choice of that. But, as I am finding out we have no choice as to how old we are.

 

[gds58]

@Fubar Check which way round the subtraction is, since looking at some results, I may have done it the wrong way round in my example. But I am sure you now get the idea, so once you check which way round it is, you should have no problem working out the results and understanding who won

Unfortunately you did do it the wrong way round! but the maths was correct. In other words if a rider (vet) beats his/her 'standard time' then they have a 'plus' of the amount they beat it by. Using your example of a 40 year old in a '10' he has a standard time of 25:59 so if he records a time of 24:30 for example, he has a 'plus' of 1:29

The standard times do not change from one course to another only according to riders age and the distance of the course. In a multi event or multi distance championship then the 'plusses' (or minuses) of the rider are added together as an aggregate time and the winner is simply the one with the greatest 'plus'time.

This is not to be confused with a handicap event where the handicap time is based on a riders previous fastest time at the distance and is then subtracted from his recorded time.

It's worth noting that multi national champion Mike Hutchinson turned Vet last year so if he was able to reproduce his '10' PB of 17:45 he would have a 'plus' of 8:14!! and I think that Matt Bottrill will be a vet this year!

Hope this all helps you a bit.

Graham

 

[ColinJ]

It has a few problems but it is a fair way to do things. Why when it is about age should the course come into it, as the riders have a choice of that. But, as I am finding out we have no choice as to how old we are.

I was wondering whether 60 year old rider 'A' rides course 'X' might compare him/herself with 60 year old rider 'B' who is riding easier course 'Y'.

If it is only intended to be used to compare riders of different ages on the same course, then that makes sense.

What would make most sense would be to have narrow age groups of (say) 5 years so there need not be a massive difference due to age between the extremes of the group. I suppose the problem there would be small numbers in each age group, especially the older ones.

(With my health history, I'm highly unlikely to ever be fit enough to ride competitively in any age group so it won't be relevant to me - I was just curious.)

 

[screenman]

The standards are set for every year from 40 upwards.

Even for a 20 year old you could not compare times on different courses as they vary so much. The V718 being a good couple of minutes quicker than any course in Lincolnshire for instance.

 

[Rob3rt]

Unfortunately you did do it the wrong way round! but the maths was correct. In other words if a rider (vet) beats his/her 'standard time' then they have a 'plus' of the amount they beat it by. Using your example of a 40 year old in a '10' he has a standard time of 25:59 so if he records a time of 24:30 for example, he has a 'plus' of 1:29

The standard times do not change from one course to another only according to riders age and the distance of the course. In a multi event or multi distance championship then the 'plusses' (or minuses) of the rider are added together as an aggregate time and the winner is simply the one with the greatest 'plus'time.

This is not to be confused with a handicap event where the handicap time is based on a riders previous fastest time at the distance and is then subtracted from his recorded time.

It's worth noting that multi national champion Mike Hutchinson turned Vet last year so if he was able to reproduce his '10' PB of 17:45 he would have a 'plus' of 8:14!! and I think that Matt Bottrill will be a vet this year!

Hope this all helps you a bit.

Graham

Cheers for confirming. It is not something I usually look at so, my mistake.

 

[Rob3rt]

Are these 'standard times' specific to particular courses?

(If not, then the concept seems flawed to me!)

No there is one set of times. It is a flaw, but that flaw is not unique to vets standards it is common to all CTT riders. It is something you have to just accept and live with, or you play the game and travel to the fast courses.

 

[400bhp]

No there is one set of times. It is a flaw, but that flaw is not unique to vets standards it is common to all CTT riders. It is something you have to just accept and live with, or you play the game and travel to the fast courses.

But it's not a big flaw, as the idea is to even out the field for age.

Therefore the time differences are relative (% higher or lower) for each age over any given course.

They should use a lognormal calculation (teehee).

Surprised the women's ones are as close as they are to the mens? Seems unrealistic to me.

 

[400bhp]

I was wondering whether 60 year old rider 'A' rides course 'X' might compare him/herself with 60 year old rider 'B' who is riding easier course 'Y'.

If it is only intended to be used to compare riders of different ages on the same course, then that makes sense.

What would make most sense would be to have narrow age groups of (say) 5 years so there need not be a massive difference due to age between the extremes of the group. I suppose the problem there would be small numbers in each age group, especially the older ones.

(With my health history, I'm highly unlikely to ever be fit enough to ride competitively in any age group so it won't be relevant to me - I was just curious.)

You know what, this would make a great dissertation to a maths grad. I might give Manc Uni a shout.

 

[oldroadman]

Amazing how something so relatively simple can get so complicated! So CTT and VTTA have different standards...the unlimited British capacity for reinventing the wheel, I guess. Or the "it can't be right because it's not my idea" syndrome. All very odd, but then so is travelling hundreds of miles to a "fast" course. All TT times comparisons unless same course, same day are simply a lottery, depending on where you live, how much of your money you invest to feed an ego, etc...