Vintage Holdsworth - can you help ??

[Rimmer]

nearly, either 5 or 6 digits - look at link in post #22 lower left hand side cover s70's onwards Holdsworth. switch from 5 to 6 digit in 76. its a guide, not gospel, and relates to frame being produced dates, not sold dates. The could be made up and sold in a later year, so sometime a frame number doesn't match that years catalogue pictures decals etc. although as yours is a respray, decal become irrelevant

Also often they were sold as just a frame with components being added by end user or a bike shop intermediary, so just because catalogue says just comes with Campag nuovo record kit if sold as a complete bike direct from factory, it could well have been supplied with Suntour or Shimano kit by via a bike shop.

Thanks - obviously we are not going to get any further until I reveal the first two digits (why does this remind me of a scratch card?).

 

[Rimmer]

OK first digits revealed (I think) they are 11, therefore the number is 112272. I've taken a photo, I'm not really sure if that is a 11 or not - hopefully you can see for yourself - this frame number does not seem to match up with any Holdsworth numbering system I can find on the chart (unless I am looking in the wrong place).

 

[T4tomo]

OK first digits revealed (I think) they are 11, therefore the number is 112272. I've taken a photo, I'm not really sure if that is a 11 or not - hopefully you can see for yourself - this frame number does not seem to match up with any Holdsworth numbering system I can find on the chart (unless I am looking in the wrong place).

View attachment 610557

yes you are looking in the wrong place

1978 date of manufacture, and that ties in with not yet having braze on cable guides on top tube if you look at the catalogue photo's.

no idea what model, unless you start measuring frame angles, thee wasn't a heap of difference anyway

 

[Rimmer]

Ok I’m obviously not getting it - 1978 lines up with two leading zeros - I have two leading 1’s ?

 

[Illaveago]

The colour appears to be a white mica finish a bit like what Peugeot came out with in the 80's.
My 1985 Holdsworth Avanti 501 has brazed on top cable guides.
As for price I think it is a bargain when you consider the value of the individual components .

 

[Drago]

Habe you read the date codes off the cranks or hubs yet? They're almost certainly original to the bike and take greater precedence over the erratic frame numbering system.

 

[T4tomo]

Ok I’m obviously not getting it - 1978 lines up with two leading zeros - I have two leading 1’s ?

sorry my error, I was looking at 11 and reading 01

It might not be a Holdsworth then, or someone might have stamped a "wrong" frame number. Its still a nice lugged steel frame whatever it is.

 

[Rimmer]

sorry my error, I was looking at 11 and reading 01

It might not be a Holdsworth then, or someone might have stamped a "wrong" frame number. Its still a nice lugged steel frame whatever it is.

I am frightened to buy it now! First time it's likely to not be a Holdworth alert

 

[Illaveago]

What is there to worry about ? £60 for the bike . £20 per wheel, £30 for cranks, £30 for rear mech. You could sell the parts and be quids in .
With some more research you don't know what you might discover.
The rear dropouts look like they are forged and have the adjusting screws fitted .
To me the paintwork looks to be original by the rust chip on the bottom bracket.
With a good clean up it will look hell of a lot better.

 

[Cycleops]

With some more research you don't know what you might discover.
The rear dropouts look like they are forged and have the adjusting screws fitted .

The mark of a quality frame.

 

[Rimmer]

The mark of a quality frame.

You see I don’t know much about the subject - it’s just a tad suspicious to me why someone would put a Holdsworth label on a frame that isn’t Holdsworth? Almost like a deliberate lie.

is it even a 531 frame ?

 

[Hover Fly]

Double taper seat stays, so definitely not cheap steel. At £60 I would have it.

 

[Illaveago]

You see I don’t know much about the subject - it’s just a tad suspicious to me why someone would put a Holdsworth label on a frame that isn’t Holdsworth? Almost like a deliberate lie.

is it even a 531 frame ?

A previous owner may have been told that it was and in believing so may have put the stickers on it .
I have bought 2 frames which turned out to be different from what they were supposed to be . One was supposed to be a Woodrup. After a lot of searching I discovered that it was a 1950's Flying Scot . My second frame had Rotrax transfers on it . After washing the paint off which was several colours I discovered the original finish of metallic blue . This frame turned out to be Falcon Professional . I am very happy with both frames .
If you could remove the seat post and look down inside the tube, look for a seam running down the length of the tube . If you do see a seam it will indicate that it is not tubing but seam welded. My Holdsworth Avanti has Reynolds 501 butted tubing and has the same diameter tubing as my Carlton Clubman which has Reynolds 531 so internal diameter doesn't always work . 501 tubing is slightly heavier but still good.
The frame number has been hand stamped so it wasn't churned out in the millions in some factory in the far East .

 

[Illaveago]

What size frame is it ?
Just going by the pictures it looks to be a 24.5 inch by the length of the head tube . If it is a 23.5 it could mean that the crossbar is shorter meaning a more sportier frame .
My Carlton Clubman looks like a bigger frame due to the same illusion .

 

[Drago]

You see I don’t know much about the subject - it’s just a tad suspicious to me why someone would put a Holdsworth label on a frame that isn’t Holdsworth? Almost like a deliberate lie.

is it even a 531 frame ?

It is almost certainly a Holdsworth. The design, detail, dropouts and lugs mark it as such. It is still wearing some of the original Holdsworth finishing kit, such as the chainset and wheels. It is still wearing the remains of the ESGE mudguards that were fitted to certain Holdsworth and Claud models. That being the case there is little eivdence to suggest that it is not a Holdsworth, and rather a lot to suggest that it is. Occam's Razor...

Being a Holdsworth is almost certainly a 531 frame, albeit perhaps only main tubes and fork blades. Even with just the basic 531 tubeset they are very fine bikes to ride.

If the wheels are in good oder, wheelsets with Wolber rims and Suntour or Miche hubs are themselves worth the price that this chapmis asking for the entire bike.

As aforementioned, Holdsworth/Claud Butler/Freddie Grubb frame numbering was inconsistent and records poor so one cannot read anything into an inability to reconcile a frame number.