Weird helmet laws

[lulubel]

This isn't intended to be a debate on whether helmet wearing should be required by law or not, or even whether people think you should or shouldn't wear a helmet, so please keep those discussions in relevant threads. Thank you

I discovered this information from a link in another part of the forum, and I'm finding it quite amusing.

Apparently (and I didn't even know this even though I've lived here for nearly 2 years) it's compulsory to wear a helmet in Spain. However, it's only compulsory to wear a helmet outside built up areas, and not compulsory in very hot weather or on long climbs.

Does anyone else think this makes a complete laughing stock of the law?

I don't have any statistics for this, but presumably more accidents involving cyclists occur in built up areas where there are more vehicles in a confined space than out on the open road.

And while I do appreciate (having cycled here through July, wearing a helmet) that it can get seriously hot, and long climbs make you a lot hotter, is it less likely that you're going to be involved in an accident in hot weather or when you're riding uphill? (OK, there's a greater risk of losing control on a fast descent than when climbing, but how many cyclists actually just fall off their bikes without involvement from another vehicle?)

Can anyone make any sense of this law?

 

[snorri]

Can anyone make any sense of this law?

No.
Slovakia is another country requiring adults to wear helmets out of town, but out of town crashes tend to be higher speed collisions, higher speeds than helmets are designed to offer protection against.

 

[lukesdad]

Is the law enforced ?

 

[Red Light]

No.
Slovakia is another country requiring adults to wear helmets out of town, but out of town crashes tend to be higher speed collisions, higher speeds than helmets are designed to offer protection against.

Hungary too recently modified its helmet law to make it only apply out of town on roads of greater than 50kph speed limit (so as to facilitate the introduction of a Boris Bike type scheme)

Spanish helmet law is very rarely enforced it at all anyway but the mistake is in thinking there is any sense at all behind the laws. All the laws that have been passed have been based on using the helmets for things the manufacturers would not be allowed to claim for them.

 

[lulubel]

Is the law enforced ?

No, it isn't enforced. Considering that "hot" and "long uphill" are very subjective terms, I would imagine there are plenty of easier laws to enforce.

 

[david k]

if they tried to enforce it the accused could easily argue they were hot

 

[ThePainInSpain]

I live about 13 km from lulibel (I think we're the only 2 members in Spain, and happen to be almost neighbours).

I think it was me who posted the information, of which she speaks, some time ago.

However, my view is that all the reasons that people come up with for not wearing a helmet are just excuses.

I always wear one when on the bike (even more convinced after my episode last Sunday), I don't find that it' makes you hotter, in fact the opposite. The way a helmet is designed allows the breeze to be concentrated on the bonce and cool it down.

You peeps in the UK wouldn't appreciate this, but you should ALWAYS wear some form of head covering in the sun, so why not a helmet. A baseball cap just gets all sweaty and wet. Whereas a helmet has some foam inside to stop a lot of sweat from running into your eyes.

Back to the main point though, lulibel, we are in Spain, what can you expect.

This shows how stupid the law makers are here; In June they reduced the speed limit from 120 kmph to 110. This entailed ALL of the 120 signs having a 110 sticker put over them, at God only knows what cost.
This was to save fuel, because the price of fuel had risen so much (at that time I was paying €1.34 per litre for diesel).
The 1st of July saw the speed limit raised back to 120 kmph. The excuse was that the price of fuel had now dropped (I was paying €1.24 per litre).
It was then discovered that the glue used on the 110 stickers was too strong and they couldn't get them off. Guess what, yep, they put 120 stickers over the stickers.

The price of fuels is now at €1.27 per litre, so what next.

What bloody idiot Spaniard thought that one up.

With a bit of luck this idiot of a Prime Minister will be gone in November, having called an early election. You know who I mean, he looks like Mr Bean, and is the only Premier in the EU that doesn't speak English. A great indictment for his education system.

I could write a book about the stupidity and wastes of money that go on in this country. Particularly where property is concerned. The corruption here is systemic and endemic. This has to be the only country in the world where money can be taken from your bank account without your permission.

 

[lulubel]

This has to be the only country in the world where money can be taken from your bank account without your permission.

We make sure we don't keep any money in our account for that reason - just enough to cover any payments due out in the next couple of days.

However, we did have an interesting situation in the UK once. I was thinking about joining a gym, so went and had my induction session and did all the paperwork, gave my OH's bank details because the direct debit would be coming out of her account, and took the form home for her to sign. Then I changed my mind about the gym membership and didn't return the signed form. It wasn't until a few months later that OH realised they'd been taking money out of her account every month. When we demanded proof from the bank that she'd authorised it, we got it all back, but it was quite shocking that it happened at all.

 

[ufkacbln]

There is a case at present in Australia where a Judge has overturned a fine on the grounds:

"It is clear that there is a significant argument taking place in certain scientific circles regarding the efficacy of helmets, in terms of their ability to protect. On one view, they appear to pose as much danger when worn as the danger of not wearing them. Unfortunately, that issue is an issue for Parliament in terms of whether they should rescind the mandatory requirement for helmets to be worn by cyclists,"

Going top make the Australian laws very silly if this is upheld at the appeals stages

 

[Bicycle]

In the former Yugoslavia (SFRJ) it was apparently legal to ride a motorcycle in town without a lid, but you needed one between towns.

I frequently rode without one and was stopped only once.

The copper asked me to put my headlight on but not my lid. In truth I think he wanted to talk about motorcycles.

That was in the old 'tamni vilajet' of BiH, so lots of the Police at that time took an eccentric view of what was legal.

At no time did riding a motorcycle without a helmet save my life.

 

[Davidc]

Sorry PainInSpain, I get very hot in a helmet, and take it off when that happens. I've twice helped deal, in England, with cyclists who have had crashes after passing out as a result of hyperthermia caused by helmets. Expensive ones may handle air flow better. (Fortunately no serious consequences for either btw).

That law sounds daft, but I'd expect to end up with that sort of nonsense here if we ever get compulsion. The idea's daft and when it has to adapt to the real world it's bound to produce lunacy.

The daftest bit is that if helmets are to be of any use it's at slow speeds. It's at higher speeds where the're likely to cause serious rotational injuries. It can only make sense to a civil servant to create a worst of all worlds situation like that!

With the chances of a head injury on a bike being once in several million miles (or several lifetimes) why does it matter anyway?

 

[Red Light]

There is a case at present in Australia where a Judge has overturned a fine on the grounds:

There was a UK case this year in the High Court where the judge dismissed the evidence of two neurosurgeons with the following:

1. I accept that this approach is the appropriate starting point. No engineering evidence was available to the court as to the types and effectiveness of cycle helmets. They vary considerably in strength, design and effectiveness. There is a school of thought that thinks that the wearing of them gives a rider a false confidence that can lead him or her into dangerous situations. The wearing of a helmet in some circumstances may increase or cause injury.
2. Both Mr Porter the very experienced Neurosurgeon who gave evidence and Dr Ferguson a Consultant Neurologist concluded from a medical point of view that in head injury cases there is a potential benefit in protection and that the literature establishes that cycle helmets are generally beneficial in head injury cases. It is clear that a properly designed helmet worn by a cyclist at speeds of up to 12mph who falls 1.5 metres and hits his head on the pavement is afforded a high level of protection.
3. Dr Ferguson pointed out that the potential benefit of helmets is not limited simply to cases of mild injury but may include cases of severe head injury and referred to the Thompson 1996 study.
4. The head injuries in this case were severe and there was more than one impact causing severe injury as well as the rotational as injuries and oedemas. I am not satisfied that the wearing of a helmet by the Claimant in this case would have had other than the most minimal effect.

Phethean-Hubble v Coles (Feb 2011)

And then there was Smith v Finch (2010) again in the High Court in which the judge concluded after hearing expert testimony:

"my conclusion is that that speed was in excess of 12 mph and so the wearing of a helmet would have made no difference..........It follows that the state of the evidence is such that I am not persuaded by the Defendant, on the balance of probabilities, that any of the injuries sustained by the Claimant may have been reduced or prevented by the wearing of the helmet, even if the impact speed was a low enough speed for the helmet to have afforded protection."

So British judges are not too bad either.

 

[Davidc]

hmm, the only time I ever wear a helmet is in built up area. As for the other two points - is there a definition in Spain for Hot weather & Long climb? If I travel there from Scotland it will be hot, even on a cold day, And what about visitors from Holland?

They wouldn't know what a cycle helmet was for. Probably think it's some form of portable potty until they see the holes in it!

......
So British judges are not too bad either.

If ever compulsion comes in in the UK I'll stop wearing a helmet altogether so I hope so!