Well this is controversial

[Dogtrousers]

For your consideration. Assume for purposes of discussion that there exists a bike manufacturer that can make 4 identical bikes. They all have the same geometry, aerodynamic features, weight, group set, etc.. The only difference in each bike is the frame material of construction. The materials are steel, CF, aluminum and titanium. They are also, priced the same.
Which one would you buy and why?

None of them. I've already got a bike.

 

[matticus]

For your consideration. Assume for purposes of discussion that there exists a bike manufacturer that can make 4 identical bikes. They all have the same geometry, aerodynamic features, weight, group set, etc.. The only difference in each bike is the frame material of construction. The materials are steel, CF, aluminum and titanium. They are also, priced the same.
Which one would you buy and why?

Put on the spot, I would reject the CF on the grounds that it would be creating more landfill.

Sometimes people forget to look at the bigger picture :-/

 

[Dogtrousers]

Put on the spot, I would reject the CF on the grounds that it would be creating more landfill.

Sometimes people forget to look at the bigger picture :-/

Me too. If my own bike had been nicked or spontaneously combusted or something and I actually had to buy one, I'd go for Ti. Partly curiosity, as I've never had a go on one, partly bling value. But I would worry about the dozens of "my Ti frame cracked" stories I've read, so I'd want a good guarantee

Edit. Although on second thoughts if I'm being a good environmentalist I would need to factor in the large environmental footprint of Ti refining. So it's bling vs conscience.

If not Ti then Steel. Al is boring.

 

[Tenkaykev]

I notice that the carbon seat post fitted to some Brompton models has a thin steel shim around it. I presumed this was because it is clamped / unclamped on a regular basis and the repetetive clamp / release operation might accelerate wear.

 

[T4tomo]

Me too. If my own bike had been nicked or spontaneously combusted or something and I actually had to buy one, I'd go for Ti. Partly curiosity, as I've never had a go on one, partly bling value. But I would worry about the dozens of "my Ti frame cracked" stories I've read, so I'd want a good guarantee

Same here on all points. The "rides even better/smoother than steel" is defo an attraction, but the initial expense, particularly to get one with a lifetime frame warranty*, which mean buying brand new, is the only negative for me. I would want to try before buying too.

* just checking planet X (titanium) frames are now a lifetime warranty as of Sept 23, it used to be just the Titus brand that did lifetime, the rest were just 2 years.
https://www.planetx.co.uk/pages/warranty

 

[Dogtrousers]

I toyed with the idea of buying myself a Ti bike for my 60th. But it would be a huge faff and my heart wasn't in it so I got myself some new wheels instead.

 

[Alex321]

Same here on all points. The "rides even better/smoother than steel" is defo an attraction, but the initial expense, particularly to get one with a lifetime frame warranty*, which mean buying brand new, is the only negative for me. I would want to try before buying too.

* just checking planet X (titanium) frames are now a lifetime warranty as of Sept 23, it used to be just the Titus brand that did lifetime, the rest were just 2 years.
https://www.planetx.co.uk/pages/warranty

When I bought my current bike (Cube Attain GTC), while I was looking, I considered a few Ti bikes, including the planet X ones. But they had a lead time of over 6 months ( I was looking in July 2021). I also looked at some from Kinesis, but couldn't find any in stock anywhere.

But I have been very happy with the one I ended up getting. Whether I would have been just as happy with one of those, I don't know.

 

[KneesUp]

Same here on all points. The "rides even better/smoother than steel" is defo an attraction, but the initial expense, particularly to get one with a lifetime frame warranty*, which mean buying brand new, is the only negative for me. I would want to try before buying too.

* just checking planet X (titanium) frames are now a lifetime warranty as of Sept 23, it used to be just the Titus brand that did lifetime, the rest were just 2 years.
https://www.planetx.co.uk/pages/warranty

Bear in mind though that it’s not guaranteed for your lifetime, it’s the lifetime of the company. My pans from Woolworths are still in the 25 year guarantee period. I don’t fancy my chances of getting a replacement if the handles fall off though.

 

[lazybloke]

For your consideration. Assume for purposes of discussion that there exists a bike manufacturer that can make 4 identical bikes. They all have the same geometry, aerodynamic features, weight, group set, etc.. The only difference in each bike is the frame material of construction. The materials are steel, CF, aluminum and titanium. They are also, priced the same.
Which one would you buy and why?

Your scenario eliminates the one advantage of CF: its weight saving.
That leaves several disadvantages which really don't interest me. Eg, it places limits on what I can carry (luggage on racks, etc); and a potential weakness to general abuse such as being crashing or dropped.

I'd go Ti or Steel and a frame built for comfort/endurance.

As a compromise I use an aluminium Allez. It's pretty versatile - it did extremely well commuting with a heavily-laden luggage rack and some offroad abuse, but with new tyres fitted I managed a moving average of 20.5mph on a 84 mile segment of Ride London; so clearly it's an all-rounder of a bike; not bad considering it was a skip rescue.

POssibly I'd be faster wth a CF frame, but since I normally only average 12-13 mph, I'm not really interested in speed.

 

[Alex321]

Your scenario eliminates the one advantage of CF: its weight saving.

Why do you think that is the one advantage of CF?

It isn't actually even the main advantage. Though his scenario does eliminate other significant advantages too, by saying they have the same geometry and aerodynamics. Being more easily able to make "tubes" that are not circular in cross section, CF allows different aerodynamic capability.

But there is also the directional rigidity, allowing the frame to be stiff but compliant at the same time, and for me as a casual style rider, that is the most important advantage.

 

[srshultz]

None of them. I've already got a bike.

In this scenario you allowed to have two bikes. Indulge yourself. 😉

 

[wafter]

As if by magic this showed up in my FB marketplace recommended toss recently:

On the subject of Ti, since historically a lot of this has been sourced from Russia, I wonder how that's affecting the bike frame market? Probably largely a moot point since nothing seems to be selling currently..

 

[Chief Broom]

Had a strange dream last night....i had bought myself an extremely expensive carbon bike in tasteful dayglo orange....anyhow i was eager to show off to the world my new shiny magnificence so pedalled up by the Loch... but was disappointed that there was no one about...😢 but all was not lost! there was great shaggy highland cow stood in the middle of the single track road " Good morning Mr cow" I said "do you like my splendiferous machine it weighs 10 gms less than my ally one! ..."lovely" said Mr cow, and it only cost £10,000 i excitedly informed him.. " mmm interesting" said Mr cow but i could tell i needed to really impress him! and it has oval tubes so i can go faster! "listen Pal youre really ****ing me off" and before i knew it his pointy handlebar horns had launched me into the Loch!

 

[wafter]

Solid? are you having a giraffe, its hockey stick not a fecking sledge hammer.

Don't get me wrong they do occasionally break, just as wooden ones did back in the day. bare composite btw. They will be thicker walls than say the top tube on a bike, but probably similar thickness as the BB shell are and laid up with multi -directional fibre and there is usually some internal ribs in key impact areas.

The point is you can make very strong stuff out of CF, just as you can with steel and Alu, its all in the skill of making.

I have bikes made out of all 3. Horses for courses.

I watched a video of someone shortening a composite stick and the handle (which one would assume requires less strength than the hitty-end) appeared to be maybe 3-4mm wall.

You mention that they occasionally break; no big deal in that application one assumes (certainly not from a user safety perspective); I'd not be so casual about the potential outcomes of a fork failure on a bike.

Again, I'm well aware of the positive physical properties of CFRP and that it can make immensely strong structures; however I'm also aware of the drawbacks which most seem to conveniently ignore.

This is something that actually interests me.

In 2020 I crashed my (steel) bike badly on a pothole. The front wheel was no longer a wheel afterwards. I forget how many spokes were broken but it was a lot. The rim was totally mashed. The fork, which is carbon, still looks fine and can't see any problem with it. I've ridden it for 4 years since but it still nags at the back of my mind. I may replace it some time, but probably like-for-like.

I've been wasting my time on cycling internet groups for far too long, and while I've seen dozens of broken cranks and cracked Ti frames and a fair few broken handlebars stories I don't recall any broken carbon fork stories (apart from the notorious Viscount Death Forks, but they're more for historical interest). Not saying there haven't been any, I just don't remember any.

At least you've recognised that nagging, and personally I'd heed it.

As posted previously there's plenty on the net regarding failed CFRP forks; IIRC there was someone on here some years ago with a Boardman hybrid(?) where the composite fork had cracked. More mainstream and recent is this sobering example.

 

[T4tomo]

Had a strange dream last night....i had bought myself an extremely expensive carbon bike in tasteful dayglo orange....anyhow i was eager to show off to the world my new shiny magnificence so pedalled up by the Loch... but was disappointed that there was no one about...😢 but all was not lost! there was great shaggy highland cow stood in the middle of the single track road " Good morning Mr cow" I said "do you like my splendiferous machine it weighs 10 gms less than my ally one! ..."lovely" said Mr cow, and it only cost £10,000 i excitedly informed him.. " mmm interesting" said Mr cow but i could tell i needed to really impress him! and it has oval tubes so i can go faster! "listen Pal youre really ****ing me off" and before i knew it his pointy handlebar horns had launched me into the Loch!

I think the takeaway from this is that we shouldn't be pissing around with titanium and carbon fibre, but instead make our bike bike tubes from bone and keratin.

Even a deep skeptic like @wafter would be happy with that from a safety point of view.

BTW I'm claiming copyright and patent pending pending on this idea, if you try to steal it I'll sue the @Dogtrousers off you.

As few horns grow straight, its going to look even wilder than a curly Hetchins.