What defines a Vintage or Classic Bike?

[Laurentius]

In terms of mods, I don't think you have to keep anything pure unless it is a rare example. I think there is nothing wrong with modding a period bike in the way it would have been modded when it was current or only slightly out of fashion, many of us back in the day got hold of a frame we liked, and put it through it through various changes of running gear over time. I certainly did. It's the same with cars, some people own classics because they like them and use them and keep them up to current spec, whilst others will trailer a concourse model from show to show.

 

[Paulus]

It looks even nicer now I've fitted a honey Brooks B67s to it, just haven't got around to taking a picture of it with that on yet.
Can't decide whether to fit Mudguards or not (I've got the original ones and the Chainguard but TBH they're pretty beat up)

I think that a set of black SKS 'guards would suit very well.

 

[Drago]

Age defines a vintage bike.

Some kind of historic, cultural or design significance defines a classic - your average Apollo Boat Anchor SIS-15 sponge cake SS could live to be 300 years old, it will never be a classic. Other machines, like the curly Hetchins, original Moultons, or Raleigh Coppers were classics from the moment they hit the shops.

 

[wonderdog]

There are many terms bandied about in all ares of classic machinery ... cars, bikes, motorcycles. "Pristine" is often used to describe over-restored trailer queens when in truth it means "undisturbed". "Restored to original" is an oxymoron because how can anything "restored" be "original"? The joys of concours judging and the trials and tribulations of trying to explain the aforementioned to someone who has spent a squillion on a restoration and then not won their class at a show. Pout? Tantrum? I've seen them all.

 

[Edgy Dee]

'Vintage' and 'Classic' have slightly different meanings. I would take 'Vintage' to mean 'not contemporary'. My partner has an alloy Fort which attracts admiring looks. A bit of a watershed is created by the rules for L'Eroica - steel frame, freewheel not freehub, downtube friction shifters, non-aero levers, toe-clip pedals. Classic could be any age as has been suggested. Most bicycles bring joy to my heart, and that's a good enough test of classic for me. The exceptions are of course the BSOs, especially anything with suspension, which brings despair to my heart because I can think of no way of redeeming the contraption, Even if it's gas-pipe, a conventional diamond frame can be turned into a something tolerably worthy of the epithet 'classic' with some judicious curation.

 

[Chris S]

Can't decide whether to fit Mudguards or not (I've got the original ones and the Chainguard but TBH they're pretty beat up)

They'll be a tight fit with the bigger wheel rims

 

[raleighnut]

They'll be a tight fit with the bigger wheel rims

Nah, there's plenty of room I've only got 28s on there.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

OK, here's one:- modern Classic or just an old hack?? Raleigh Pioneer gents hybrid, built c.1993?, dark metallic purple colour, nice alloy 700c's on what look like possibly Maillard hubs, alloy crankset, full mudguards and rear carrier rack. Went to collect a rough old junker today off someone (mainly to rob the nice sturdy Blackburn rack off it for my Raleigh MTB), and whilst doing that I seem to have also become the proud owner of a really tidy looking £10 Pioneer which I wasn't even shopping for! n+1 I think the term is....

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

OK, here's one:- modern Classic or just an old hack?? Raleigh Pioneer gents hybrid, built c.1993?, dark metallic purple colour, nice alloy 700c's on what look like possibly Maillard hubs, alloy crankset, full mudguards and rear carrier rack. Went to collect a rough old junker today off someone (mainly to rob the nice sturdy Blackburn rack off it for my Raleigh MTB), and whilst doing that I seem to have also become the proud owner of a really tidy looking £10 Pioneer which I wasn't even shopping for! n+1 I think the term is....

I'll say modern classic but I'm biased as I love my Pioneer Jaguar which I bought new back in '98. It's no lightweight but I find it a pleasure to ride and the solid construction means I'll hopefully get years more enjoyment from it yet.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I'll say modern classic but I'm biased as I love my Pioneer Jaguar which I bought new back in '98. It's no lightweight but I find it a pleasure to ride and the solid construction means I'll hopefully get years more enjoyment from it yet.

I reckon they're quite a handsome machine if done out in traditional-ish colours (not really a fan of some of the bright two-tone paint jobs I'm afraid) and as you say they seem well built. Mine is buried under a pile of junk bikes and kids toys etc, so I couldn't even get it out for a proper look. Just took a chance on what I could see. Seller is going to extract it ready for me to pick up next week and says if I don't like it after all I can have my tenner back!. Can't say fairer than that.
My thinking is fit a pair of 35 wide p*ncture resistant Schwalbes to it and use it for 10+ mile trips where it should be noticeably easier work pushing along than riding an MTB on knobblys. Beauty is the MTB-style forks have plenty of tyre clearance, will just need to see what will fit under the mudguards though.

 

[raleighnut]

Nice bikes the Pioneer series, is this one rigid or a hardtail.

Another thing to do is look for a sticker that says 4130 or CrMo as I'm pretty sure some of them were built with that tubing not that the ones built with standard Raleigh tubing are bad (3 of my Raleighs are 'Hi Tensile' tubing) but the 'Pioneer' named bikes changed spec quite a few times.

 

[woodbutcher]

Vintage or classic or both at the same time when applied to a bicycle has a comfortable ring to but does the same apply to the rider

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Nice bikes the Pioneer series, is this one rigid or a hardtail.

It's a rigid frame, which is the only sort of bike I will have. Intend it for 100% road use anyway to keep the 700c rims straight! I can ride tracks on the MTB. Don't like suspension forks, or worse, full-sus frames. My view is that if you really need suspension for serious terrain, then you should spend the money and buy a high spec MTB where the build budget is enough to be able to properly engineer it.
There's also the fact that suspension adds weight, and for my sort of use just isn't needed.

I've a feeling the frame is more likely to be regular hi-tensile rather than Cro-Moly, but you never know your luck! We'll see when it gets dragged out of the junk pile. I won't be disappointed either way, looks like a really useful and practical machine. It's cost the equivalent of two gallons of petrol. If it's even only barely rideable as it comes it's still worth that. I'm expecting to have to do a bit of tinkering anyway, but the chain isn't rusty which suggests it was kept inside not left out in the open.

 

[raleighnut]

It's a rigid frame, which is the only sort of bike I will have. Intend it for 100% road use anyway to keep the 700c rims straight! I can ride tracks on the MTB. Don't like suspension forks, or worse, full-sus frames. My view is that if you really need suspension for serious terrain, then you should spend the money and buy a high spec MTB where the build budget is enough to be able to properly engineer it.
There's also the fact that suspension adds weight, and for my sort of use just isn't needed.

I've a feeling the frame is more likely to be regular hi-tensile rather than Cro-Moly, but you never know your luck! We'll see when it gets dragged out of the junk pile. I won't be disappointed either way, looks like a really useful and practical machine. It's cost the equivalent of two gallons of petrol. If it's even only barely rideable as it comes it's still worth that. I'm expecting to have to do a bit of tinkering anyway, but the chain isn't rusty which suggests it was kept inside not left out in the open.

Nice that it's a fully rigid one, I'll bet it has the Raleigh crankset that Shimano made with aluminium arms but the rest in steel. My advice would be to scrap that and fit an all aluminium crank with replaceable rings even if that means changing the BB to a 'Hollowtech HT11'

BTW when removing the crankset do not drop it on your foot unless you're wearing 'steelies' those things are seriously heavy.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Nice bikes the Pioneer series..... look for a sticker that says 4130 or CrMo as I'm pretty sure some of them were built with that tubing.

Update - the "accidental purchase" £10 Pioneer was duly extracted from aforementioned junk pile by the previous owner and collected. He said he wasn't even sure if he'd pulled out the right one, so had also extracted a junk BSO in a similar colour just in case it was the wrong bike - he couldn't tell the difference! Was initially slightly miffed as the rear brake lever is damaged, probably as a result of careless storage. My miffed-ness soon disappeared though, when I noticed the frame was lugged & brazed not welded, and I spotted the Reynolds 501 sticker on the seat tube! I wasn't expecting that at all, as I bet the vast majority of buyers opted for the standard frame rather than pay the extra for a Reynolds one. I'd also taken a bit of a chance on the size, not being able to check it properly. I'd guessed it to be a 21" which would fit OK, but it turns out to be a 23" and even better as I've got long legs. It all looks to be there, though both the Rigida alloy wheels need a bit of TLC as the spoke tensions are uneven and the rims are enough out of true to rub on the brake blocks, really could do with new tyres as well. Grinning like a Cheshire cat at my bargain and off out for a pint or three - any excuse for beer!