What do you look for in a tour?

[palinurus]

Plenty food!

 

[Brains]

Is there a touring specific magazine of travel agency? I live in a non-anglophone country, hence my ignorance.

The CTC organise a lot of cycle tours, in that they have leaders who organise cycle tours, everything from a long weekend in the Cotswold's to a month long expedition in Tibet with lots of 'wine tours' in France in between

Most of their tours are sold out by February, but they do produce a brochure of sorts in the Autumn with a list of the tours being organised the following year.

The CTC has it's own magazine (called Cycle) which goes out to the 150,000 members every couple of months, they advertise there, as do the other companies in the business.

http://www.cyclingholidays.org/tours/index.php

There are other companies that also do cycle tours, cycleskeddadle http://www.skedaddle.co.uk/splash/home.rails is one of the better known/run ones - look what they do, see where they advertise.

I did a self led with baggage carry to next B&B moving on tour of Ireland with http://www.cyclingsafaris.com/ a few years back. Very good

Another company that does a lot of very good adventure holidays, with a few Cycle based holidays in the brochure is Explore http://www.explore.co.uk/activities-experiences/cycling-holidays

It might be worth contacting all of the above and see if it is possible to run for the 2012 season as one of their agents to learn the ropes before venturing out on your own. One assumes they will be looking at the 2012 and 2013 holiday offers now, and if they don't have an Algarve based holiday (or even if they do) you could be an alternative

You could even book yourself on one of their holidays for this year to get an idea.

 

[Festina_Lente]

Hi, well, I've take the advice from this thread and built up a little sports touring company, currently the emphasis is on cycling, since I'm a cyclist.

I wanted to know what people's opinion is on payments? I see that most companies take full payment a few weeks in advance. Would this not be a big risk for the consumer? I'm thinking of taking a deposit, then taking the remainder of payment on arrival.

We can't afford a scheme such as ABTA, so I was wondering how can I allow people to have confidence in our service? We're a brand new start up.

Basically, how can I assure the consumer I am not going to fleece them?

 

[oldfatfool]

Basically, how can I assure the consumer I am not going to fleece them?

Can't speak for the Algarve but a tour operator in the UK should have all payments held in an escrow account that is only accesible to the operator after the tour OR for payments directly influencing the tour at the discretion of the trustees, or suitable insurance that will have similar terms in anycase. (Or that was the case when I was looking at a start up. Liability insurance and 3rd party liability for participants was also a major factor)

 

[Festina_Lente]

I've got the liability and 3rd party insurance.

I got confused by "payments directly influencing the tour at the discretion of the trustees"?


Who would be the trustees though? Payments directly influencing the tour would be things like hotel bookings?

I've thought about holding payments in escrow. I think this may be the solution initially. After that I'll purchase the insurance.

 

[dellzeqq]

Hi, well, I've take the advice from this thread and built up a little sports touring company, currently the emphasis is on cycling, since I'm a cyclist.

I wanted to know what people's opinion is on payments? I see that most companies take full payment a few weeks in advance. Would this not be a big risk for the consumer? I'm thinking of taking a deposit, then taking the remainder of payment on arrival.

We can't afford a scheme such as ABTA, so I was wondering how can I allow people to have confidence in our service? We're a brand new start up.

Basically, how can I assure the consumer I am not going to fleece them?

then you're in difficulties. There's no way I'd buy anything that wasn't bonded.

Otherwise I'd have thought that the major worry would be the other people. RichP may have made friends when he went on tour, but he is unnaturally gregarious and stunningly handsome (although not as handsome as his beloved is lovely - indeed there are many who marvel at his good fortune). My worry would be fetching up on a tour with a load of people who were more interested in (say) smoking dope every night than (say) baroque architecture. Or vice versa.

 

[Festina_Lente]

Interesting post. We will soon be able to afford bonding (a scheme like ABTA, but Portuguese). But till then I'm struggling...

This highly unorthodox but would you find it acceptable to pay a deposit, then the rest of the outstanding value at the end of the holiday? It's far from perfect but I'm not expecting any problems and it is intended as a measure of good faith.

In terms of the other people being incompatible, it's not a problem with the self-guided. For the guided tours I expect we will get "difficult" customers on occasion, but I am hoping the nature of the holidays dictates the market: hard tours for serious cycling enthusiasts, easy tours through the countryside for those who want to see baroque architecture and the roman ruins. In any case the focus is on the enjoyment of the sport and the place. We do have a questionnaire when we prepare the holiday just incase someone inappropriate (say some one with heart problems) wants to do something like the Volta ao Algarve, so we can recommend against it.

 

[oldfatfool]

I've got the liability and 3rd party insurance.

I got confused by "payments directly influencing the tour at the discretion of the trustees"?


Who would be the trustees though? Payments directly influencing the tour would be things like hotel bookings?

I've thought about holding payments in escrow. I think this may be the solution initially. After that I'll purchase the insurance.

The escrow account is held by a financial institution (eg solicitor) and any payments out of the account before the termination of the tour would have to meet their criteria, for instance paying for accommodation, IF they deemed that a fair use.

An escrow account should afford a greater degree of guarantee than for instance an ABTA bond which iirc will not cover the client if their agent goes bust and as not passed your moneys on to an operator/ service provider.

As a small operator you will not require the same cash flow that requires the use of the money before the tour, ie block booking entire hotels to the tune of 100's of rooms, so imo ABTA or the Algarve equivelent unless you are registering as a British company would be a non starter for me.

Be careful with your 3rd party insurance and make sure it is tailored for your specific needs.When I looked into it as a uk tour operator I would have been responsible for any claims arising from the actions of any of my clients, I would also have been responsible for the services provided by a third party eg hotel. As I was planning on operating similar to you but with cars and motorbikes rather than cycles this was a very expensive mine feild for a new start up to absorb in costs.

Another stumbling block that I found was a clause about offering aid in the event, though I believe this can be cicumnavigated to an extent by making insurance purchase compulsary by the client, you will still have an obligation to offer all reasonable help. This is of course all for an operator running from the UK.

 

[Festina_Lente]

Thanks a million oldfatfool. Your advice has been invaluable!

Fortunately it seems we have covered most of our bases from a legal point of view, but I look forward to build credibility for the company. We are obliged to buy insurance on behalf of the customer by law here, as well as having our own.

I would like to know if anyone has any bad experiences touring (with a company) and what they may be?

 

[Brains]

I would like to know if anyone has any bad experiences touring (with a company) and what they may be?

One mans mountain is another mans hillock.

Acurate descriptions of the routes is required, as I have found that as an experienced cyclist I go up some slight inclines I really have not even noticed.
Other less experienced cyclists however ending up walking up anything with even the smallest slope having struggled up the first hill (often with no knowledge of how to use gears).

This means that a route that takes me say one hour at a 12-15 mph gentle pootle, becomes a three hour major cycle ride with miles of walking for others.

Incompatibility between even the regular casual cyclist who can do 30 miles in day in 3-4 hours versus the person who rides a bike twice a year and in reality would struggle to do 10 miles in the same time, and by day two or three is looking for an exit.

 

[Crankarm]

I'm starting a little company and I would like to know peoples experience of cycle tour companies. What do cycle tourists look for in a tour provider? Is a flashy website important? What are the common mistakes made in delivering these tours, the things that stand out as irritating about this type of holiday? What extras justify the extra £ over just doing it yourself?

Have you ever done any cycle touring? For if you had you wouldn't be asking these questions.

Rule 1. Never pay to go on an organised cycle tour organised by some one who has never done any cycle touring.

Rule 2. Never sign up to anything where payment is talked about pretty much straight way.

If any one was thinking about cycle touring who hadn't done it before I would say either go for it solo, it can be very liberating, but if you prefer the herd mentality then join your local cycling club and try to find a few other people of similar ability and expectations to you to enjoy a few miles cycling. But I would avoid this enterprise.

 

[MsLDN]

I've only been on self-organised tours. I think it's really unlikely I'd pay for an organised tour anywhere in Europe, it just doesn't seem necessary - not if you're travelling with a partner and/or friends, anyway. And part of the fun (for me anyway) is planning it all.

I could conceive of an organised tour if travelling further afield, e.g. SE Asia - and if so I'd expect expert knowledge fo the roads/trails and their CURRENT conditions, accurate route descriptions (including elevation profiles) local language skills or translators/guides and medical/paramedic backup. I wouldn't pay for anything that wasn't ABTA protected - no way.

 

[Festina_Lente]

Have you ever done any cycle touring? For if you had you wouldn't be asking these questions.

Rule 1. Never pay to go on an organised cycle tour organised by some one who has never done any cycle touring.

Rule 2. Never sign up to anything where payment is talked about pretty much straight way.

If any one was thinking about cycle touring who hadn't done it before I would say either go for it solo, it can be very liberating, but if you prefer the herd mentality then join your local cycling club and try to find a few other people of similar ability and expectations to you to enjoy a few miles cycling. But I would avoid this enterprise.

Hi crankarm,

Yes, I have done organised cycle touring: once in Ireland (Kilkenny, Wexford) and two weeks in Santa Barbara, California.

Not to ring my own bell, but I think the above post calls into question my credibility:

I am also a professional cyclist of four years. I have extensive knowledge of the region in which my tours are based having been born and raised here. If you count all the "tours" I've done as a professional, we're probably into the hundreds.

I am also a qualified cycling coach and qualified in Sports Technology and currently studying Sport Science.

The questions presented in this forum were in order to draw on a wide range of opinions and experience. This is my first business and I want it to be excellent.

In terms of talk of payment: I am not a large abta and iata bonded travel company and want to assure peace of mind to my customers.

I am not sure I can take anything constructive away from your post. But yes, people might like to go solo, learn about cycling through a club, etc and I encourage that. We're comparing apples and oranges here.

 

[BluesDave]

I wouldn't use one (a tour company). They keep going bankrupt and stranding people all over the world. I've never used one and I never would. If you can't organise a holiday or a tour yourself then you shouldn't be going on one.

 

[hubbike]

I'm also a little disappointed with crankarm's comments. Just not very constructive. Although this is a "Touring and Expedition" forum and as such most of us are self starters and wouldn't necessary use a service like this. There have been several posts in the past asking for a recommended guided cycle holiday company... But I don't think this thread is here as advertising...

Rather, here's a cyclist looking to make a living out of doing what he loves: cycling. I think that should be encouraged. I'm certainly interested in how he gets on as I may well have ambitions in the same direction myself one day.

I am sure there are many people who would be very nervous of a cycling holiday unless they had someone to look after them, make the arrangements and carry around their hairdriers/heels/make up bags/etc...(just kidding ladies!!!

). Without this type of organised holiday they'd probably never get on a bike. That'd be a shame.