What do you use for ID when....

[Drago]

It could work, but I'd have to change my name to "The Occupier"

I told the tv licence people my name is Lee Gul Occupier. He was still puzzling that as I slammed the door in his face.

 

[MontyVeda]

...
This whole debate is precisely back to front, ID cards don't need to be compulsory to own, they need to be compulsory to accept. ...

Can't disagree with that.

 

[Gwylan]

Barcode tattoos are a bit extreme.

@presta what documents will they accept?

There was a test of that concept. Didn't end well.

 

[Psamathe]

If they don't accept photocopies I don't see why they would accept a scan on a screen. If I'm applying for a passport I've got the problem of finding someone who's known me for two years to sign the photo.

Opening accounts is a nightmare, one set of documents to prove who you are (passport, driving license, etc.) and another set to prove your address eg utilitry bill but driving licence only if that is not used for proving who you are).

If not attending in person (eg by post) they need to be certified copies which is difficult. Main Post Offices will certify copies but charge for the service so if you don't know eg a teacher or lawyer then difficult.

Don't send in your passport as my brother did this for a financial institution and it "got lost" and at time when there were massive delays getting a replacement plus a "lost" passport is more complex (apparently).

A tax notification and a utility bill will do, but I don't want to have to carry them (or a passport) around everywhere just on the off chance that I need them once a tall time. It's about access to services at the point of need, not after it's too late. On this occasion I could make do with the £50 they would give me instead of the £100 the cheque was for, but that won't necessarily be the case.

I've never had the problem but always assumed a credit card should suffice as it has your signature and if the bank don't believe you are the owner of the card they should be calling the police as you are trying to use a stolen card meaning a) you've stolen somebody elses credit card and b) that you are trying to steal their ID.

But never tried it so no idea if that helps.

Ian

 

[T4tomo]

I'm already a full licence holder, but if they won't renew it on medical grounds I can't get a another one for the same reason.

An expired licence card is still valid as ID, just not a proof that your are allowed behind the wheel.

 

[presta]

@presta has your new card arrived yet?

It's not about debit cards, it's about a car-centric society that makes the driving licence a surrogate ID card to humour the wingnuts who won't have a proper one, and is wilfully blind to the way that non-licence holders are disadvantaged and marginalised by it.

I misread, you attempted to get cash using a cheque the second time, not paying it in the first time. I'd have declined you anything the second time. You were lucky on your second attempt.

You still misread it. I got the money first time, without a cheque, and not the second time with all the same information as the first, plus a cheque in addition, even though the second time was for less money.

So if you don't require, or even want, the driving licence, why bring it into the equation

I didn't. Lloyds bank did. They're the ones demanding a driving licence, not a traffic cop.

In close to 5 years, itheyself nor my wife have EVER had a credit or debit card fail in the way yours has.

My cards never last until the expiry date, they always crack. The card in question is only two years old, and my credit card is also cracked, but that managed four years. I've had cracked loyalty cards replaced a few times too.

None of which is relevant, when my other credit card failed last summer it was brand new and undamaged. The bank (HSBC this time) had changed the PIN number after sending me a letter that explicitly said the PIN wasn't changing, then continued insisting that I try one alternative machine after another for about a fortnight.

It isn't worth carrying around those documents for such rare occurrences.

What should I tell the YHA when they demand a driving licence? Then there was Plymouth Globe independent hostel that required a driving licence, but their other hostel in Exeter didn't. Guess who's going to demand ID next.

Main Post Offices will certify copies

That's what the banks tell you, but the Post Office refuse on the grounds they haven't known you for two years, I banged my head on that wall years ago. It's OK to get copies certified by a solicitor who doesn't know you though, because they charge for that.

always assumed a credit card should suffice as it has your signature

Nope, I had two credit cards and a photo bus pass, none of which were good enough (on the second occasion).

An expired licence card is still valid as ID

No expired documents of any kind are valid as ID.

Can't disagree with that.

So simple, innit. Just create the ID equivalent of Legal Tender: nobody's forced to offer it, but you can't legally reject it. Then make sure it's available to anyone who needs it.

Nobody has any suggestions what you can carry around everywhere that'll come up top trumps in a game of guess what the jobsworth's are going to demand next, because nobody's much bothered by it when they have a driving licence, and because there's no legally standardised form of ID.

Interestingly, the Lloyds list includes a tax notification but not a birth certificate, and the government list contains a birth certificate but not a tax notification. It has to be an original certificate though, which begs the question what's the difference between an original and a "Certified copy of an Entry of Birth". The answer to that depends on who you ask.

HMG will accept an NHS Medical Card as proof of address. I don't know what they'd make of mine, it's got a 65 year old temporary address crossed out, and the permanent one written in by my father.

Assuming Lloyds haven't changed the PIN number on the new card, it's sorted for now. Until the next time, then it all starts all over again....

 

[Regular.Cyclist]

OP if you are cracking cards that often then maybe you want to review how you store them when not in use. That will reduce the frequency of future hassle.

I’ve never had a card crack or fail in any way.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

but the Post Office refuse on the grounds they haven't known you for two years,

Then you’ve encountered an unhelpful sod in your PO who couldn’t be bothered doing it or didn’t understand what you wanted.

Certifying documents as true copies is a widely available and popular Post Office service (maybe not available in every one). It’s how I saved a packet in comparison to using a notary public when the PO certified copies of my various birth, marriage and death certificates for my Irish passport. They absolutely do not need to know you in the slightest, let alone for two years.

Would you not go for that ID card I linked to up thread? It would seem to sort nearly all of your problems except for Lloyds. And to be honest, if they were that awkward with me I’d switch banks.

 

[Baldy]

What should I tell the YHA when they demand a driving licence? Then there was Plymouth Globe independent hostel that required a driving licence, but their other hostel in Exeter didn't. Guess who's going to demand ID next.

I've been using YHA hostels for decades and never once had anyone ask for my driving licence or any other ID except my membership card. That only proves I'm a member so they know which rate to charge me. Using independent hostels I've not even needed that, never been asked to prove my ident. I really don't understand this.

 

[MontyVeda]

OP if you are cracking cards that often then maybe you want to review how you store them when not in use. That will reduce the frequency of future hassle.

I’ve never had a card crack or fail in any way.

I believe it's card, singular, but i could be wrong

I've only ever had a card crack once and i'm not sure how. I don't use a wallet and carry my card in a pocket; front or back depending on what pants I'm wearing so they're frequently getting bent. They're usually very resilient, until they're not.

 

[Baldy]

It's not about debit cards, it's about a car-centric society that makes the driving licence a surrogate ID card to humour the wingnuts who won't have a proper one, and is wilfully blind to the way that non-licence holders are disadvantaged and marginalised by it.

This bit I can understand, a driving licence whether it's got a photo on it or not doesn't prove your identity. You could apply for a licence under any name if you so wished.

Twenty years ago you could buy a driving licence on Leicester market. You probable still can.

The practice of accepting driving licences as a form of ID actually makes it easier for scammer. The same thing happened in Germany with their Ausweis. ID cards do not prevent fraud.

 

[Psamathe]

Main Post Offices will certify copies but charge for the service

That's what the banks tell you, but the Post Office refuse on the grounds they haven't known you for two years,

See https://www.postoffice.co.uk/identity/document-certification

Certified copies of your important documents​

Need to provide photocopies of documents? Get them certified as a true likeness of their originals at selected Post Office branches.
Pay a fee for the copies you need and keep the originals. The organisation that requested them gets copies certified by a trusted brand.
Please note we can’t certify copies of UK birth, marriage or death certificates due to Crown copyright regulations.
We certify most forms of documents, including:

• 
  
  Passport
• 
  
  Driving licence
• 
  
  Recent utility bills
• 
  
  Bank statements

Ian

 

[classic33]

It's not about debit cards, it's about a car-centric society that makes the driving licence a surrogate ID card to humour the wingnuts who won't have a proper one, and is wilfully blind to the way that non-licence holders are disadvantaged and marginalised by it.

You still misread it. I got the money first time, without a cheque, and not the second time with all the same information as the first, plus a cheque in addition, even though the second time was for less money.

I didn't. Lloyds bank did. They're the ones demanding a driving licence, not a traffic cop.

My cards never last until the expiry date, they always crack. The card in question is only two years old, and my credit card is also cracked, but that managed four years. I've had cracked loyalty cards replaced a few times too.

None of which is relevant, when my other credit card failed last summer it was brand new and undamaged. The bank (HSBC this time) had changed the PIN number after sending me a letter that explicitly said the PIN wasn't changing, then continued insisting that I try one alternative machine after another for about a fortnight.

What should I tell the YHA when they demand a driving licence? Then there was Plymouth Globe independent hostel that required a driving licence, but their other hostel in Exeter didn't. Guess who's going to demand ID next.

That's what the banks tell you, but the Post Office refuse on the grounds they haven't known you for two years, I banged my head on that wall years ago. It's OK to get copies certified by a solicitor who doesn't know you though, because they charge for that.

Nope, I had two credit cards and a photo bus pass, none of which were good enough (on the second occasion).

No expired documents of any kind are valid as ID.

So simple, innit. Just create the ID equivalent of Legal Tender: nobody's forced to offer it, but you can't legally reject it. Then make sure it's available to anyone who needs it.

Nobody has any suggestions what you can carry around everywhere that'll come up top trumps in a game of guess what the jobsworth's are going to demand next, because nobody's much bothered by it when they have a driving licence, and because there's no legally standardised form of ID.

Interestingly, the Lloyds list includes a tax notification but not a birth certificate, and the government list contains a birth certificate but not a tax notification. It has to be an original certificate though, which begs the question what's the difference between an original and a "Certified copy of an Entry of Birth". The answer to that depends on who you ask.

HMG will accept an NHS Medical Card as proof of address. I don't know what they'd make of mine, it's got a 65 year old temporary address crossed out, and the permanent one written in by my father.

Assuming Lloyds haven't changed the PIN number on the new card, it's sorted for now. Until the next time, then it all starts all over again....

Where's you're passport in all of this? Why don't you carry that around for the one time you need it, for other than travel?
You'll note it's still at the top of the list for verification purposes. Above the driving licence, still. And that remains the same now as before with the paper versions. It's a document that you've had to prove who you were to get it, that's why. One that is verifiable with a phonecall if needs be. The same with the driving licence, if they've reason to suspect the person presenting it isn't entitled to use it.

Take a look at any UK issued banknote, on them you will see the wording "Promise to pay the bearer on demand". It's an empty promise, and one that has had no legal status for nigh on the last hundred years. It dates back to over 600 years to the first banks. Roughly half that for the Bank of England. You're taking the notes you're given at face value. And anyone can say they think it's fake and decline it when offered in payment.

I have had neither passport or driving licence and managed okay. You got used to the ease of accessing your money, and chose to sound off about the driving licence instead.

You know there's a problem with your card, the bank knows. It's why they've ordered a replacement for you. You go back a second time to get money and you don't like the fact that you got less than what you wanted. I stand by what I said, if it had been me, you'd have been walking out with no cash.

When you get your new card, as suggested by @Regular.Cyclist, you watch how you store your cards. It's there in the small print, which you read before signing anything, that you would, and they can charge you for a replacement if they want.

As for any business asking for ID, it's up to them what they ask for and accept, and what they'll refuse. Including cards, bank notes and cheques.

The Post Office, as stated by @glasgowcyclist, does a verification service for passports. They even advertise the service, and they don't need to have known you for two years or more.

 

[Regular.Cyclist]

I believe it's card, singular, but i could be wrong

I've only ever had a card crack once and i'm not sure how. I don't use a wallet and carry my card in a pocket; front or back depending on what pants I'm wearing so they're frequently getting bent. They're usually very resilient, until they're not.

The OP states that their cards never last till expiry date. Whether that is a single card at a time, or multiple ones, they have had cards fail several times. I don’t understand why you are being picky.

Single or mutiple, if I was damaging card(s) at the rate the OP is I would be changing something to try and prevent it. A ridge wallet, or a cheaper clone of one, would be perfect.

 

[Psamathe]

A valid passport is an interesting technical thing. My passport is still in date, etc. but technically void because I've visited some areas of some countries that regard themselves as independent when the country doesn't, but to highlight their independence they setup border office and stamp your passport with an entry stamp. But, despite them regarding themselves as independent, legally they aren't so their stamp defaces your passport which invalidates it as a document. To the point where some countries will reject you at the border as your passport is void by the illegal stamp. Hence, entering such countries eg Thailand, ensure you do so at a land border when it's very busy as when busy they won't spend ages looking through your passport (where they can if the border is quiet).

Ian