What had Ed Sheeran done wrong?

[Deeferdonk]

Ah, did not realise you were driving in the 1930s when it was abolished

"There is no such thing as road tax" is the common cry from my fellow cyclists in response to an entitled motorists rant.

But let me play devils avocado.

People still commonly refer to the VED, more often than not, as car tax, vehicle tax or road tax, so via the magic of language etymology and common usage - such a thing as road tax does exist - even if its not the "official" terminology!

If a lot of a people call a thing a thing, that's what the thing is called to those people. I call lapwing birds, peewits- as thats the local term i was brought up with. Do peewits exist? It calls them lapwings in my bird book.

It's like saying no one called Bob exists, because their official name is Robert.

Therefore road tax does exist......i rest my case.

( using similar logic i once got into a disagreement arguing that Robin Reliants exist, even though they are technically Reliant Robins!)

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I do not know the details - but converting it to electric would be understandable IF the engine was totally shot

i.e. had to be replaced and could not be fixed

which is possible

It's not as if the engine was scrapped. It'll be in another DB by now, for sure. (Or stored to be sold with the car for re-conversion in future)

 

[Dogtrousers]

Therefore road tax does exist......i rest my case

Well actually VED is not hypothecated so I think you'll find that ... (everyone falls asleep)

 

[Drago]

Well actually VED is not hypothecated so I think you'll find that ... (everyone falls asleep)

Although the legislation does exist to would allow it to be set aside for a specific purpose, its just never utilised.

 

[Deeferdonk]

Well actually VED is not hypothecated so I think you'll find that ... (everyone falls asleep)

*wakes up and googles what hypothecated means*

That's not relevant. I am saying the name of something is created by common usage, it doesn't have to related to its original origin or even logic. And most taxes are named after their source rather than what they are spent on anyway eg income tax, inheritance tax.

VED makes even less sense. An excise is a duty or tax. Therefore VED means Vehicle Duty Duty, and is not ring fenced for spending on vehicles either

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

I found DVLA very uncooperative with VED/SORN renewal. I was travelling South America for an extended time and my car VED became due yet. So I contacted DVLA as their post magic code to renew VED would be sitting in my letter box and without it I couldn't pay my tax. Also without the V11 I couldn't SORN my car.

So I asked them to e-mail me the magic code so I could renew online - they refused. I asked them how many people had fraudulently paifd VED for other people and they refused to say. All they would say was to go to my local Post Office and pay there ... but in Peru?

I asked them for a few months grace, they refused. I wanted to pay my VED or SORN but they were completely uncooperative given my geographic location. Total madness.

 

[Drago]

To be fair, your lack of prior planning isn't the DVLA's energency.

If you'd stored the V5 serial number in your phone before you went away you'd have been sorted.

Owning a motor vehicle carries several mandatory responsibilities. If we are unwilling or unable to discharge those duties then dont own one.

 

[Shortfall]

*wakes up and googles what hypothecated means*

That's not relevant. I am saying the name of something is created by common usage, it doesn't have to related to its original origin or even logic. And most taxes are named after their source rather than what they are spent on anyway eg income tax, inheritance tax.

VED makes even less sense. An excise is a duty or tax. Therefore VED means Vehicle Duty Duty, and is not ring fenced for spending on vehicles either

It doesn't matter what people call it or think it is. Car drivers who think that paying VED grants them exclusive rights to use the roads over those who don't are wrong because roads are paid for out of general taxation and not from a hypothecated pot of money. VED is a tax on owning and using a vehicle. The end.

 

[Profpointy]

*wakes up and googles what hypothecated means*

That's not relevant. I am saying the name of something is created by common usage, it doesn't have to related to its original origin or even logic. And most taxes are named after their source rather than what they are spent on anyway eg income tax, inheritance tax.

VED makes even less sense. An excise is a duty or tax. Therefore VED means Vehicle Duty Duty, and is not ring fenced for spending on vehicles either

We refer to beer tax (or alcohol or ciggie tax) but no one thinks it's for providing beer, any more than "road tax" is for building roads.

 

[wafter]

... are we talking about cars or in a general sense?

If it's the latter I suspect the list might be quite long..

 

[Deeferdonk]

It doesn't matter what people call it or think it is. Car drivers who think that paying VED grants them exclusive rights to use the roads over those who don't are wrong because roads are paid for out of general taxation and not from a hypothecated pot of money. VED is a tax on owning and using a vehicle. The end.

Well it kind of does matter - the understanding and use of language is important in how we communicate with our fellow humans.
e.g

Typical discussion
D: "You shouldn't be on the road - you don't pay road tax"
C: "There's no such thing as road tax"
D: "Well, i am Susie Dent and my observations and understanding of language tells me thats actually not quite true *proceeds to run cyclist over*

How it should go;
D: "You shouldn't be on the road - you don't pay road tax"
C: "That's true but cyclists aren't required to pay road tax, but have every right to use the highway, and are human beings with inherent worth who deserve respect and safety. "
D "You have confounded my world view, my life is a lie . i must make amends. *calls their mother for the first time in ages*

 

[13 rider]

He had to pay a "victim surcharge " ,who was the victim of this heinous crime ?

 

[Shortfall]

Well it kind of does matter - the understanding and use of language is important in how we communicate with our fellow humans.
e.g

Typical discussion
D: "You shouldn't be on the road - you don't pay road tax"
C: "There's no such thing as road tax"
D: "Well, i am Susie Dent and my observations and understanding of language tells me thats actually not quite true *proceeds to run cyclist over*

How it should go;
D: "You shouldn't be on the road - you don't pay road tax"
C: "That's true but cyclists aren't required to pay road tax, but have every right to use the highway, and are human beings with inherent worth who deserve respect and safety. "
D "You have confounded my world view, my life is a lie . i must make amends. *calls their mother for the first time in ages*

So we agree that Road Tax doesn't exist in the way some entitled motorists mistakenly believe it does in that the money raised from VED is used exclusively to build and maintain roads. What you appear to be arguing above is that in order to convince them of their error we have to be nicer to them, but that's a separate point to the one you made initially that if enough people believe something then it becomes a fact through common usage and understanding. Irrespective of your example about Peewits and people called Bob, try deploying that defence when you get nicked for not "taxing" your motor.

 

[Elybazza61]

Well it kind of does matter - the understanding and use of language is important in how we communicate with our fellow humans.
e.g

Typical discussion
D: "You shouldn't be on the road - you don't pay road tax"
C: "There's no such thing as road tax"
D: "Well, i am Susie Dent and my observations and understanding of language tells me thats actually not quite true *proceeds to run cyclist over*

How it should go;
D: "You shouldn't be on the road - you don't pay road tax"
C: "That's true but cyclists aren't required to pay road tax, but have every right to use the highway, and are human beings with inherent worth who deserve respect and safety. "
D "You have confounded my world view, my life is a lie . i must make amends. *calls their mother for the first time in ages*

I take it you haven't faced a red in the face gammon who would still run you over no matter how you worded it.

We actually had one years ago on a club ride who over took and then stopped dead in front of us to rant about 'road tax' ;no amount of discussion would have changed his mind ;he really got a proper hump on though when it was suggested he's going to be even later getting to his destination now.

 

[presta]

I noticed that the tax on my Carlton had run out just after my father died, so I used his Fiesta instead (all taxed & insured). Back in the days before SORN and tax reminders, I'd just forgotten because of all the work a death makes, I've never driven deliberately without tax. There are a couple of other occasions, one when I cycled to work after I noticed the tax on my Capri had run out, and the other was when I took my driving test in my father's Imp when he'd forgotten to tax it.

"There is no such thing as road tax" is the common cry from my fellow cyclists in response to an entitled motorists rant.

But let me play devils avocado.

People still commonly refer to the VED, more often than not, as car tax, vehicle tax or road tax, so via the magic of language etymology and common usage - such a thing as road tax does exist - even if its not the "official" terminology!

If a lot of a people call a thing a thing, that's what the thing is called to those people. I call lapwing birds, peewits- as thats the local term i was brought up with. Do peewits exist? It calls them lapwings in my bird book.

It's like saying no one called Bob exists, because their official name is Robert.

Therefore road tax does exist......i rest my case.

( using similar logic i once got into a disagreement arguing that Robin Reliants exist, even though they are technically Reliant Robins!)

This is why I tell cyclists that motorists laugh at them when they insist there's no such thing as road tax.

Vacuum cleaners are called Hoovers, even when they're not.
Sticky tape is called Sellotape, even when it's not.
Cable ties are called Ty-Raps, even when they're not.
Correcting fluid is called Tippex, even when it's not.

"Well, i am Susie Dent and my observations and understanding of language tells me thats actually not quite true

Yes, but what doozy sent Susie Dent?