What have us cyclists been saying for ages?

[confusedcyclist]

It's now a matter of "when" and not "if".

What makes you so sure?
http://energyskeptic.com/2020/nasa-explains-why-self-driving-cars-may-not-be-in-your-future/

If anything I'd wager that our pending energy crunch will force many back to being rooted in place, there will be little energy to waste on powering 2 tonne steel cages.

 

[lane]

I was reading s critique of a new housing estate at the weekend which forced reliance on the car. One resident said "we have to drive to KFC and McDonald's".

 

[Drago]

Our local tv were once interviewing mums outside a school and asking them why the drove there.? One said "I've got no choice but to drive - it's a 20 minute walk." I tell you, when the Vatican invades we'll be unable to stop them if that's the example parents set their kids.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Those are excuses, not genuine obstacles. No person is ever born that way, popping out of the womb needing a car to drive a lengthy commute. Nope, peoples lifestyle, outlook and level of consumption set these parameters, and these are all decisions wilfully made by adults. People had no choice in the matter prior to the car, and they'll have no choice in the matter again once unfettered private car use without consequence is at last curtailed.

This is something that I find frustrating. When people say "Oh, but I couldn't ............. without my car" or even more annoying "Yes but it's easy for you, you don't need a car" what they actually mean is "I made a set of decisions and in order to live the way I chose, I have to drive a car." I'm not saying that's automatically "bad", but then call it what it is.

I made a set of decisions as well, but I started by deciding I didn't want to drive a car, and that there would also be a cost in that decision. Sometimes it is frustrating when I have to ride to work in the cold or the rain, again, or wait for a bus because I don't want to have to dry off the third time that week, but that's a consequence of my decision. At the moment my choice of places to work has been much reduced because some are either only accessible by car, or they want me to drive. This is a consequence of my decision: I'll survive, but spare me this business about how I'm "lucky" that I don't need a car. It's a conscious choice for all of us.

 

[Andy in Germany]

What makes you so sure?
http://energyskeptic.com/2020/nasa-explains-why-self-driving-cars-may-not-be-in-your-future/

If anything I'd wager that our pending energy crunch will force many back to being rooted in place, there will be little energy to waste on powering 2 tonne steel cages.

Aside from that, we already have the "technology" to make our towns safe and pleasant places to live, work and travel. A place where walking and cycling everywhere you need to go is a much more attractive place to live, and we know people have more relationships and a stronger sense of comminuty than places that are clogged by cars. In terms of happiness, it really is a no-brainer. It is also the cheapest and simplest solution.

 

[Drago]

This is something that I find frustrating. When people say "Oh, but I couldn't ............. without my car" or even more annoying "Yes but it's easy for you, you don't need a car" what they actually mean is "I made a set of decisions and in order to live the way I chose, I have to drive a car." I'm not saying that's automatically "bad", but then call it what it is.

I made a set of decisions as well, but I started by deciding I didn't want to drive a car, and that there would also be a cost in that decision. Sometimes it is frustrating when I have to ride to work in the cold or the rain, again, or wait for a bus because I don't want to have to dry off the third time that week, but that's a consequence of my decision. At the moment my choice of places to work has been much reduced because some are either only accessible by car, or they want me to drive. This is a consequence of my decision: I'll survive, but spare me this business about how I'm "lucky" that I don't need a car. It's a conscious choice for all of us.

Here here. An oft quoted one I hear is "I couldn't live without my car here in the country." Erm, I live there too and do just fine on my bike and, occasionally, the bus.
















PS - before some pedant mentions it I do have a car (well, 2 of them). One I'm keeping as a present for my niece when her birthday rolls around, and then other sits idle for sometimes more than a month at a time and only moves for SAR callouts. Saving live and limb emergency response is the only time I drive it, everything else is my bike and the occasional dollop of public transport.

 

[tom73]

One of the things about growing up was my dad being made redundant. Money become a problem so we sold the car. Meaning most of my childhood it was walking or the bus. Unlike most of my mates so I’m happy to mostly be car free.
Even when me and Mrs 73 go out for the it’s normally train or day trip. It’s a a lot less messing about give her a rest she drives enough for work. W e get time to talk and enjoy the ride. plus you get to sleep on the way home.
We’ve made that choice maybe a bit more cost but lot more enjoyable. Yes we drive for our holiday but once I park the car that’s it till home time. It’s walking , local bus or the odd stream train. Again much better time all round. If only our car could take a rack I’d never be off the bike

Choices need making or even harden ones will have no say. We need a total rethink sadly we may not have time to do it.

 

[classic33]

One of the things about growing up was my dad being made redundant. Money become a problem so we sold the car. Meaning most of my childhood it was walking or the bus. Unlike most of my mates so I’m happy to mostly be car free.
Even when me and Mrs 73 go out for the it’s normally train or day trip. It’s a a lot less messing about give her a rest she drives enough for work. W e get time to talk and enjoy the ride. plus you get to sleep on the way home.
We’ve made that choice maybe a bit more cost but lot more enjoyable. Yes we drive for our holiday but once I park the car that’s it till home time. It’s walking , local bus or the odd stream train. Again much better time all round. If only our car could take a rack I’d never be off the bike

Choices need making or even harden ones will have no say. We need a total rethink sadly we may not have time to do it.

Don't you think you'd stand out a bit too much?

 

[tom73]

@classic33 ?

 

[classic33]

@classic33 ?

You on the bike, on top of the car.

 

[Vantage]

I had an argument with a chap in the ctc forum once about his 'need' for the car.
He said that he needed it as his new job was 45 miles away and to do that twice daily on a bike would kill him. Fair enough.
But if he hadn't had the car in the first place, would he have looked so far from his home for a job? No.
But there weren't any local jobs so he had to look further afield. Pah! His car allowed that way of thinking.
I never once worked further away than 10 miles from home. It took a bit longer to find those jobs but find them I did.

What amazes me about this is that people from town A travel to town B for a job.
So people from town B have to travel to town A for a job.
If people stuck to jobs in their own towns we wouldn't have the car centric society that developed because of the car in the first place. Its madness.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I had an argument with a chap in the ctc forum once about his 'need' for the car.
He said that he needed it as his new job was 45 miles away and to do that twice daily on a bike would kill him. Fair enough.
But if he hadn't had the car in the first place, would he have looked so far from his home for a job? No.
But there weren't any local jobs so he had to look further afield. Pah! His car allowed that way of thinking.
I never once worked further away than 10 miles from home. It took a bit longer to find those jobs but find them I did.

It looks like I may have to get a job some distance away from where we currently live, which means we may have to move. On the other hand where we live has notoriously high rent costs so that may be all to the good as we currently live in a tiny apartment.

And why does it have such high rental costs? Because we have "good communication links" ie the Autobahn network is nearby and we're near the airport, so we're paying for something we don't use.

 

[MontyVeda]

Personally I remain convinced that self-driving cars are going to be the game changer. Once you can easily summon a car to take you from A to B at a reasonable cost, you no longer need to own a car. Just book one when you need one and it turns up at your house. Then roads can be simplified, driveways turned back to gardens. Autonomous cars can minimise traffic by networking. It's now a matter of "when" and not "if".

isn't that a taxi?

 

[mjr]

isn't that a taxi?

"Reasonable cost" may be the difference, especially if you live out of a big urban area. Taxis often only become reasonably-priced once 3 or 4 share.

 

[icowden]

isn't that a taxi?

No. Taxis are expensive, because the driver needs to be paid. Taxis can take too long to turn up. Driverless fleets can work 24 hours a day without rest or error. They can be a *lot* cheaper (well until they become self-aware and form a union ) than taxis.

Ownership of a car is calculated to be around £5.22 per day (£162 per month) not including any purchase finance. It costs £6 to go from my house to the station in a taxi. Driving today would be getting my girls to school, ad-hoc trip to school to deliver forgotten bag and back again, getting my wife to work and back again. In a taxi, this would probably be around £50.

In a driverless fleet, I can summon a vehicle. Pack the girls into it knowing it is secure, and not worrying about dodgy drivers. Off they go. Wife gets a different vehicle to work and back. I get a vehicle to the school and back for the bag drop. Imagine if each of those trips was under a pound. It would no longer make sense to own a car. Plus, I can summon a driverless for a longer trip or period of time, knowing that when I am not using it, it will toddle off and continue working. Emissions are reduced, many many less vehicles need to be made. Most cars sit around doing absolutely nothing.

My car will sit on my drive for 20 out of 24 hours today. We have millions of vehicles doing nothing. Imagine reducing to hundreds of thousands, but all working. Many less parking facilities and spaces needed. No parking charges. No parking tickets. Better road safety. No drunk / drugged / incompetent drivers.

It's the future I tell ya!!