I meant really small things, not the drive train, wheels or frame, I meant cables, screws, bolts, paint, lacquer etc Screw heads disintegrating when adjusting something, in the middle of nowhere, can have profound affect on an asessment of a bikes "quality". 2 weeks touring on it left it looking like a 5 year old bike, I have a 2006 501 that looks like new after several tours. As I said in my original post, they are all "good" bikes, but if I was buying one to keep and use, after a charity ride, then my experience would ensure it was not a Sirrus, maybe I was unlucky, but then I've owned two...........and several Disco's to compare them with