What is the definition of "aggressive"?

[SD1]

Stopping getting out of the car and walking towards me. With or without fists clenched.

 

[stephec]

Who wants to know? Eh? EH?

GC

Did you spill my post?

 

[Milkfloat]

Back on topic, some loose definitions for me would be.

Assertive - taking my rightful place on the road, taking primary when advisable and being clear about my intentions/route.
Aggressive - Cutting up cars, zig-zagging through traffic, impatient, vindictive
Bloody Minded - purposefully blocking traffic because it is my right and being uncompromising to other road users.

I always try to be assertive, am rarely aggressive (unless I have been significantly 'wronged') and am never bloody minded (on a bike). To me being bloody minded is just a crap way of being aggressive.

 

[jefmcg]

I once ended up on the A3 just near Kingston Upon Thames. I found myself in the combined bus, taxi, bike and HGV lane. You can see a posting about it here. Big mistake. I ended up riding fast with a raised kerb to my left, fast moving traffic to my right and a huge articulated lorry behind me as close as he dared, sounding his air horn. I couldn't stop as he was too close behind me, so moving into the gutter and stopping or getting on to the foot path weren't available. I certainly couldn't move right. So I had the choice of staying where I was so he couldn't pass me, or moving into the gutter at speed where I would certainly wobble and might easily clip the gutter and come down. There was not room for him to pass me safely without changing lanes, but he clearly thought there was. Staying just where I was, scary though it felt, was the safest thing for me to do. It required a lot of a assertiveness not to bow to his demands - and I got out of the way as soon as I could do it safely. That is an example of what I mean by assertiveness.

Riding on the tail of a vulnerable road user, sounding a loud horn repeatedly is an example of what I mean by aggression.

Edit: the driver may have thought I was being deliberately uncooperative aka bloody-minded. I doubt he would have thought of me as aggressive.

 

[Electric_Andy]

- what is the difference / dividing line is between "assertive", "aggressive" and "bloody-minded" in the context of a cyclist's behaviour on the road?

- how being "bloody-minded" can be viewed as not a form of aggression (passive or otherwise), assuming that that assumption is correct in the first place?

Assertiveness is, for example, taking primary position through a pinch-point after doing a shoulder check.
Aggressive: flicking V signs, driving up to driver's window, purposefully doing anything that could intimidate someone and/or insight a physical confrontation.
Bloody-mindedness: just being awkward for the sake of it.

Second part of your question - No. Someone can be awkward without it intimidating you, and without it being construed as "wanting to fight", or "he's going to beat me up".

 

[Electric_Andy]

Aggressive - Cutting up cars, zig-zagging through traffic, impatient, vindictive
.

I don't agree. zig-zagging through traffic, as long as it doesn't cause anyone to alter their speed or direction, is fine in my book. If it's done at high speed then I might think it stupid or rude, but never aggressive. Aggression to me means that the person is forcing me to do what I don't want to do, with a threat of violence if I don't cave in. Cutting up cars (causing them to brake or swerve), if intentional, is both stupid and bloody-minded, but people who do that usually drive/ride off. If the cut me up and got out their car, only then would I identify them as an aggressor.

 

[midliferider]

I once ended up on the A3 just near Kingston Upon Thames. I found myself in the combined bus, taxi, bike and HGV lane. You can see a posting about it here. Big mistake. I ended up riding fast with a raised kerb to my left, fast moving traffic to my right and a huge articulated lorry behind me as close as he dared, sounding his air horn. I couldn't stop as he was too close behind me, so moving into the gutter and stopping or getting on to the foot path weren't available. I certainly couldn't move right. So I had the choice of staying where I was so he couldn't pass me, or moving into the gutter at speed where I would certainly wobble and might easily clip the gutter and come down. There was not room for him to pass me safely without changing lanes, but he clearly thought there was. Staying just where I was, scary though it felt, was the safest thing for me to do. It required a lot of a assertiveness not to bow to his demands - and I got out of the way as soon as I could do it safely. That is an example of what I mean by assertiveness.

Riding on the tail of a vulnerable road user, sounding a loud horn repeatedly is an example of what I mean by aggression.

Edit: the driver may have thought I was being deliberately uncooperative aka bloody-minded. I doubt he would have thought of me as aggressive.

I have experienced this kind of situation so many times as a car driver on motorway 50 mile zones.

 

[Tin Pot]

"Assertive" - Road bike

"Aggressive" - Fixie or MTB

"Bloody minded" - Recumbant

 

[Racing roadkill]

For me, the dividing line is characterised by whether the act to which the adjective is applied, was executed with malice aforethought or not, and if so, the degree of malice involved.A high risk manouvre, which is executed, despite the outcome almost certainly being unfavourable, but with no malice, is bloody minded. If the intent of the act was to annoy or inconvenience, and it was planned to do so, it's aggressive, it's assertive, if the outcome of the act is favourable, and it was not intended to boil anyone's urine.

 

[bonsaibilly]

Some good contributions thanks, although nothing that categorically enabled me to understand the differences for any given cyclist's behaviour.

I guess my reading of the various (competing, possibly interchangeable and not-necessarily-definitive (as already identified)) terms based on the evidence presented, is that assertive is not aggressive whereas bloody-mindedness is a type of passive aggression.

Please keep previous threads out of this now thanks - I followed moderators' instructions and started a new thread so don't drag the other one(s) back in.
BB

 

[midliferider]

Some good contributions thanks, although nothing that categorically enabled me to understand the differences for any given cyclist's behaviour.

I guess my reading of the various (competing, possibly interchangeable and not-necessarily-definitive (as already identified)) terms based on the evidence presented, is that assertive is not aggressive whereas bloody-mindedness is a type of passive aggression.

Please keep previous threads out of this now thanks - I followed moderators' instructions and started a new thread so don't drag the other one(s) back in.
BB

No you misunderstood what we said.
No one ever said bloody minded means passive aggression.
Is making such an assumption is bloody minded?

 

[jonny jeez]

Some good contributions thanks, although nothing that categorically enabled me to understand the differences for any given cyclist's behaviour.
BB

because that doesn't exist.

 

[jefmcg]

Please keep previous threads out of this now thanks - I followed moderators' instructions and started a new thread so don't drag the other one(s) back in.

there is nothing that links from the previous thread to here, just from here to the other thread - so no one reading the other thread will be led here. If you feel I am wrong, please click "report" under my offending post. Mods will remove it if they agree.

 

[bonsaibilly]

Links go both ways but in any event I would only ask that people attempt to stick to the questions in the thread and not try to bring any other issues with them. Or just zip it. BB

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Assertiveness is, for example, taking primary position through a pinch-point after doing a shoulder check.
Aggressive: flicking V signs, driving up to driver's window, purposefully doing anything that could intimidate someone and/or insight a physical confrontation.
Bloody-mindedness: just being awkward for the sake of it.

Second part of your question - No. Someone can be awkward without it intimidating you, and without it being construed as "wanting to fight", or "he's going to beat me up".

Assertively taking primary position through a pinch-point is many drivers' most very perfect definition of aggressive cycling.