What size spoke key should I get?

[e-rider]

You therefore say that somehow the oil will disappear after time whereas grease will persist for ever. In my experience, the lubricating effect of oil on a spoke before building allows the nipple to move freely even a few years after the build. Grease on the other hand, hardens, but not enough to lock the nipple either. Several years later a greased nipple can be turned as on day one.

The oil and grease on a spoke (and rim and nipple) before building reduces friction enough to make the build easy without spoke windup, however, high tension and thread ramp friction keeps it in position for ever, not the locking effect (or not) of the initial lubrication. The exception is where spokes go out of tension due to too few spokes in the wheel, then nipples can shake loose with grease or oil. But that's an incorrectly designed and spec'd wheel and has no bearing on the argument.

I always oil spoke threads before building (as do 98% of wheel builders) and I can say for sure that after 6 months of regular use (wet and dry miles) it has 100% gone - you can remove the nipples and the threads are completely 'dry'.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I always oil spoke threads before building (as do 98% of wheel builders) and I can say for sure that after 6 months of regular use (wet and dry miles) it has 100% gone - you can remove the nipples and the threads are completely 'dry'.

They may appear dry but they can still be turned and removed. Which means they are lubricated. Grease may or may not do the same thing but the point is that lubrication has nothing to do with keeping the nipples in position. A high-tension wheel keeps its tension irrespective of the type of lubrication on the spoke/nipple/rim.

 

[e-rider]

They may appear dry but they can still be turned and removed. Which means they are lubricated. Grease may or may not do the same thing but the point is that lubrication has nothing to do with keeping the nipples in position. A high-tension wheel keeps its tension irrespective of the type of lubrication on the spoke/nipple/rim.

that's not true, you don't need lubrication for a nipple to turn on the spoke thread - they appear dry because they are, and often they are difficult to remove
also, spoke tension high enough to prevent a nipple from ever moving would be too high and would ultimately result in rim cracks or hub flange failure. Typical tensions (1000-1100N front; 800-1300N rear) will sometimes result in spokes loosening for a whole number of reasons (potholes, spoke tension imbalance, heavy/powerful rider.......) - applying grease to the threads will just exacerbate this!

 

[contadino]

...there are only two common sizes for older wheels so you could just buy both! Generally there are 3 sizes (US, Euro, Asia) but modern expensive wheels now often require many 'special' sizes.

Well a bit of a result. My LBS sells Spokey Professional keys, but for EUR 65 each - so buying 1, let alone 2 is unlikely. Amazon.it have them for EUR 7 but sellers won't ship recorded delivery so packages generally go missing in transit. If things do arrive, it's normally at least a month after ordering. I just showed the LBS guy the Amazon page and he's agreed to match the price. Popping in this evening to hopefully pick up a 3.25 key with an 80-odd percent discount. :-)

 

[migrantwing]

As a novice regards wheel truing, how do you differentiate between a) a wheel that cannot be trued as it is cheap and was probably never true anyway b) a wheel that cannot be trued due to a damaged rim and c) not knowing what the hell I'm doing?

My OH has a buckled rear wheel, possibly from a pothole, and I was going to attempt to true it. I'm practising on a wheel from my old bike but haven't got a clue if I'm just fighting a losing battle either due to my incompetence or the fact that the wheel is impossible to true.

 

[migrantwing]

Well a bit of a result. My LBS sells Spokey Professional keys, but for EUR 65 each - so buying 1, let alone 2 is unlikely. Amazon.it have them for EUR 7 but sellers won't ship recorded delivery so packages generally go missing in transit. If things do arrive, it's normally at least a month after ordering. I just showed the LBS guy the Amazon page and he's agreed to match the price. Popping in this evening to hopefully pick up a 3.25 key with an 80-odd percent discount. :-)

Glad you could get one. I would have sent you one over but including postage from the UK to Italia would have been around 20 euro

 

[Yellow Saddle]

As a novice regards wheel truing, how do you differentiate between a) a wheel that cannot be trued as it is cheap and was probably never true anyway b) a wheel that cannot be trued due to a damaged rim and c) not knowing what the hell I'm doing?

My OH has a buckled rear wheel, possibly from a pothole, and I was going to attempt to true it. I'm practising on a wheel from my old bike but haven't got a clue if I'm just fighting a losing battle either due to my incompetence or the fact that the wheel is impossible to true.

Scenario a) is irrelevant. That wheel can be trued.
Scenario c) is fixable.
Scenario b) is more difficult to diagnose and you actually need to experience it first-hand to understand. Nevertheless, let's try. If you know that the rim is bent or have good reason to suspect the rim is bent, then the wheel cannot be fixed. You just cannot true a wheel with a bent rim. In other words, if you slack off all the spokes and the rim is not straight. However, you obviously don't want to do that.
So lets say you work and work and work and eventually get the wheel reasonably true in both planes but one spoke is so tight that you cannot turn the nipple more, in spite of the fact that it has to move over that way and, an adjacent spoke is so loose that you want to loosen it to move the rim over the other way but you can't, it is just too loose. Then you know that the wheel cannot be trued.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Glad you could get one. I would have sent you one over but including postage from the UK to Italia would have been around 20 euro

I was gonna offer him one in each colour for a mere 59 Euro and now you've gone and spoil my plan.

 

[migrantwing]

I was gonna offer him one in each colour for a mere 59 Euro and now you've gone and spoil my plan.

I can withdraw the post in question?

 

[migrantwing]

Scenario a) is irrelevant. That wheel can be trued.
Scenario c) is fixable.
Scenario b) is more difficult to diagnose and you actually need to experience it first-hand to understand. Nevertheless, let's try. If you know that the rim is bent or have good reason to suspect the rim is bent, then the wheel cannot be fixed. You just cannot true a wheel with a bent rim. In other words, if you slack off all the spokes and the rim is not straight. However, you obviously don't want to do that.
So lets say you work and work and work and eventually get the wheel reasonably true in both planes but one spoke is so tight that you cannot turn the nipple more, in spite of the fact that it has to move over that way and, an adjacent spoke is so loose that you want to loosen it to move the rim over the other way but you can't, it is just too loose. Then you know that the wheel cannot be trued.

Understood! I shall see how I do.