What were you doing 45 years ago?

[SquareDaff]

In any other type of case neither party has any right to anonymity. What is special about rape that an accused person should have it granted?

Because in a rape case the other party has it. Until the case is heard and a judgement reached neither party can be assumed to be either guilty or innocent of a crime and IMO should be treated equally.

 

[Fnaar]

In any other type of case neither party has any right to anonymity. What is special about rape that an accused person should have it granted?

It's obvious to me that it is different from, say, nicking a car. The quote below is from the Stern Review (2010 report on how rape allegations are handled). The effects on those accused can be dramatic, and just a quick google will bring up instances of suicide, hounding by neighbours, having to up-sticks and move house, change jobs, etc etc. None of this, of course, takes away from the life-changing effects on the victims, but it seems wrong to allow another person to become a victim through no fault of their own.

"We do know that the effect on those who are falsely accused can be severe. The public holds very strong views about sex offenders. Those who have been under suspicion, maybe for months, perhaps remanded in custody awaiting trial, are likely to suffer considerably from the allegation having been made. Even when they have been cleared and the allegation has been established as false, they may still face suspicion from those they know."

 

[asterix]

Try imagining both experiences, and see how you feel.

Well obviously that is the test. I wasn't asking for a smart answer, I could think that up for myself!

Anyway that's the end of my very rare participation in yet another 'rape' thread. They are always too aggressive for me!

 

[theclaud]

[QUOTE 2434922, member: 45"]That's where it gets complicated for me because of those quarters I'm in (work, family, socially) it's not the case. Maybe it's the work I do and the people I mix with, but it does make me keen to get to the truth. I'm not seeking to diminish the problem, but I don't see it as "most quarters" and I'd be interested what the experience of others is.[/quote]

I don't dispute that. Likewise I'm pretty confident about my main workplace (it's an unusual one, though) and most of my friends. I'm just going on what victims find when they actually make allegations - they are often not believed even by those one might most expect to stand by them. And don't forget that the general tendency to disbelieve allegations of sexual assault is compounded by the fact that it is often one friend or family member accusing another. The problems with the police and the courts are well documented...

 

[theclaud]

I am soooo going to disagree here. In fact I am adamantly going to disagree here. At this point I am almost shouting at the monitor. I am presuming you lost the ability to read earlier. I am also asuming you have no knowledge of what happens to unlucky fathers who foster teenage girls.

I have experiance and knowledge.

I don't know why you'd presume that. I am not disputing your innocence, or the traumatic nature of your particular experience. Your last point about fostering is a bit cryptic - perhaps you'd like to expand?

 

[theclaud]

[QUOTE 2434150, member: 45"]And that's where there is disagreement with your opinion.

It's too simplistic and convenient to suggest that malicious allegations are always dealt with satisfactorily. They aren't.[/quote]

Good job I didn't say that, then, innit?

 

[Licramite]

I was a fit as fcuk 17 year old , had just started work and would be gearing up to doing nijmegan vierdags 100mile march in holland. - and boy do I whish I had known then what I know now.

As for Ken - like we all know , the sins of our past will catch up with you. - mine certainly have.

 

[DRHysted]

It is, of course, appalling that your life has been so damaged by a false accusation. I think you'll find that even the people here (including me) who don't feel that negates the much larger body of experience of sexually assaulted women would still be enormously sympathetic.

But can I ask: seems to me that people can get framed for all sorts of crimes they didn't commit and have their lives tragically damaged as a result. Was it intrinsic to your experience that it was a sexual allegation made against you - for instance, could they have set you up for theft from the till, with the same consequences? And do you favour anonymity for all crime accusations? If it is just rape where you favour anonymity, what is it that distinguishes rape from other crimes?

Unfortunately it is the number of false acusations that make it worse for the genuine victims, believe it or not I don't hate women, and would still defend them. I am now aware how much power they have (and that is freightening).
I believe that our law system is that you are innocent until proven guilty. But the trials nowadays are done by media (I am so impressed by all the rags, that I generally buy one paper a year). Definately for sexual crimes (due to the emotions they create) I am in favour of anonymity, also with our society nowadays where people want a story to sell to a newspaper, I find I can't trust scandals that appear.

 

[Beebo]

Stuart Hall has just admitted his guilt!!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22379286

 

[theclaud]

[QUOTE 2434157, member: 45"]I know we've done this before, so forgive me, but I still don't understand why something that apparently should not be regarded as different to other crimes is treated as such.[/quote]

Things are different or not depending on what you are talking about. Rape is the same as other crimes in particular ways, and different from them in particular ways. Rape is different in that it always includes a counter-accusation. A person accused of burglary does not often contend that the victim is pretending or imagining that he has been burgled, or that he wanted to be burgled, or (and this is the real doozy) that the accused couldn't be expected to understand that he didn't want to be burgled. It is the same inasmuch as it is a crime committed by ordinary people, for reasons that can be explained and articulated, and that they will continue to commit the crime if they know or believe they can do so with impunity and even approbation (like speeding, for example).

 

[DRHysted]

Your last point about fostering is a bit cryptic - perhaps you'd like to expand?

One of my mothers ex-work friends family fostered. They specialised in troubled teens.

Every year or so one of the girls would make accusations, and the entire family would go through the wringer for a few weeks until it was cleared up. After a while they gave it up, as it wasn't worth the hassle.

 

[swansonj]

With any crime, there is an issue of how it is regarded by society. But I can't help thinking that with rape, this is done inconsistently. One of the reasons given for anonymity for men accused of rape is that the odium of being accused of this particular crime is so great that men should be spared it until actually convicted. On the other hand, society still tends to downplay the seriousness of rape by looking for and accepting the "excuses" that TC has just listed (and by condoning, if not celebrating, low-level sexual abuse - there's a thread elsewhere where a bunch of men congratulate and encourage each other in ogling the boobs of some random passing woman).

Of course there is actually a consistency there - it's consistently taking the side of men rather than women.

 

[tadpole]

I may not remember what I was doing on May 1st, 45 years ago, but ask me again in August, and I will tell you exactly, I was waiting for my Brother to die after he was hit by a car driver as he was playing football after school. (we had lobby for tea, and the mother on a friend came to tell my Mum she had to go to the hospital, as her son was being taken there by an ambulance) That kind of trauma marks a person. As would being abused or raped...

 

[SquareDaff]

On the other hand, society still tends to downplay the seriousness of rape by looking for and accepting the "excuses" that TC has just listed (and by condoning, if not celebrating, low-level sexual abuse - there's a thread elsewhere where a bunch of men congratulate and encourage each other in ogling the boobs of some random passing woman).

IME these days women do this as much as men. I'll keep it generalised so as not to get anyone into bother but I know of one store predominately staffed by women, that has a Code XXX for over the tannoy when a fit gentleman walks through the doors.

 

[theclaud]

One of my mothers ex-work friends family fostered. They specialised in troubled teens.

Every year or so one of the girls would make accusations, and the entire family would go through the wringer for a few weeks until it was cleared up. After a while they gave it up, as it wasn't worth the hassle.

I see - thanks for clearing up. Do you mean they gave up fostering, or the girls gave up making the claims? We've done this at length before, and have agreed that there are certain situations or occupations in which men are potentially more vulnerable to false accusations. Unfortunately these also tend to be situations in which abuse is common, such as teaching. Fostering troubled teens is a tough thing to do. It is also tough to be a troubled teen, and one needs to take into account that historical abuse is one of the things that commonly contributes to their difficult behaviour. For this reason third-hand anecdotes about false accusations aren't terribly useful.