Wheel upgrade? Is it worth it?

[altecsole]

I recommend Conti GP 4 Seasons as opposed to Gatorskins (lighter, grippier, roll better).

Many thanks again for this - I've just ordered a couple of GP 4 Seasons.

 

[Ajax Bay]

the reviewer says how stiff and responsive they are, and how well they accelerate etc. . . . definitely need to do some more research.

"laterally stiff yet vertically compliant"
This article which looks at various bikes is a must read as part of your research:
bikesnob-2008-dream-bike-shootout, - it looks at bikes, but there's a good read-across for a 'shoot-out' between different types of wheel.

 

[bozmandb9]

I've had my bike for a couple of years now and I would like some advice on upgrades. From what I've read, wheel upgrades seem to make the biggest improvement to a bike and I'm wondering if that's something that's worth doing, or whether I'd be better looking at replacing the bike.

At the moment, I have a Cube Peloton Race 2015 (http://www.thebikelist.co.uk/cube/peloton-race) which is comfortable and has a good spec. The overall weight of the bike is listed at 8.9kg. The wheels are Fulcrum 77 which are, I think, are specific to Cube bikes, so I don't know how good these are.

A friend suggested something like the Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheelset would make a big difference to the ride, but I don't want to spend £400 if the result will be barely noticeable. He's suggested that the bike will be lighter and will accelerate and handle better, which all sounds great.

Any advice, or comments, gratefully received. Thanks for reading.

My bike weighs in at 6.8kg, but sadly it's probably written off by a recent accident, so I'm on a temporary winter bike, with a weight of over 10.5kg. The difference is enormous, it makes the difference between being able to trade with my son, usually, and not being able to on the winter bike.

Weight is probably to aerodynamics if you're getting reasonably quick, and both can be more affected by your body than by the bike, i.e. I lost 20kg's in weight, you'd struggle to lose that from a bike weight, and in aero terms, the biggest gains will be from flexibility.

However, I do find that a good wheel upgrade can make a big difference to a bike. But you'd want to balance three things. One is to get reasonably light, two, aero benefits, and thirdly, good wide internal rims, to enable you to run 25mm or 27 tyres.

Everybody nowadays says going wider is better, but this is only true if your rims are wide enough - if you go wide with narrow rims, you end up with a bulbous shape, which is very inefficient, and very unstable.

In my view, the best value, and the best compromise between weight, aero benefits, and costs, are the Cero RC45 https://www.cycledivision.co.uk/products/wheels/cero-rc45-carbon-clincher-wheelset-0045-f20-r24

 

[Ajax Bay]

However, I do find that a good wheel upgrade can make a big difference to a bike. But you'd want to balance three things. One is to get reasonably light, two, aero benefits, and thirdly, good wide internal rims, to enable you to run 25mm or 27 tyres.

How did you measure the 'big difference' please?
What is 'reasonably light'? 200g less?
Is there a site which identifies which wheels are more 'aero' than others? Please share it.
Won't deep section wheels (assume that's what you mean by 'aero') be stiffer and therefore afford a less comfortable ride? Should this be added to the factors being balanced?
25mm/28mm tyres can be mounted entirely satisfactorily on internal rims as narrow as 15mm, so I don't quite know what you're trying to share. I believe that no rims being generally sold nowadays for road use have internal rim width less than 15mm.
The standard rule of thumb the Chris Juden at CTC (as was), used to give was 1.4 up to 2.2 times the internal width, with 1.8 times internal width optimum. So 15mm internal will take anything from 21mm to 33mm width tyres.
Also be aware that if you get wheels with a "good wide internal rims" a lot of bikes (eg the OP's Cube Peloton Race 2015) will have a clearance problem with 28mm wide (nominal) tyres (at (say) 100psi.

the best value, and the best compromise between weight, aero benefits, and costs, are the Cero RC45

At £650, there speaks a man who's just written off a carbon bike weighing only 6.8kg. The OP's bike (5* value) is maybe worth £500.

 

[Cuchilo]

At £650, there speaks a man who's just written off a carbon bike weighing only 6.8kg. The OP's bike (5* value) is maybe worth £500.

I've just bought a lovely Boyd front wheel for £650

 

[bozmandb9]

How did you measure the 'big difference' please?
What is 'reasonably light'? 200g less?
Is there a site which identifies which wheels are more 'aero' than others? Please share it.
Won't deep section wheels (assume that's what you mean by 'aero') be stiffer and therefore afford a less comfortable ride? Should this be added to the factors being balanced?
25mm/28mm tyres can be mounted entirely satisfactorily on internal rims as narrow as 15mm, so I don't quite know what you're trying to share. I believe that no rims being generally sold nowadays for road use have internal rim width less than 15mm.
The standard rule of thumb the Chris Juden at CTC (as was), used to give was 1.4 up to 2.2 times the internal width, with 1.8 times internal width optimum. So 15mm internal will take anything from 21mm to 33mm width tyres.
Also be aware that if you get wheels with a "good wide internal rims" a lot of bikes (eg the OP's Cube Peloton Race 2015) will have a clearance problem with 28mm wide (nominal) tyres (at (say) 100psi.
At £650, there speaks a man who's just written off a carbon bike weighing only 6.8kg. The OP's bike (5* value) is maybe worth £500.

Not sure what you mean? I bought my 'superbike' secondhand, and for a great price. Are you suggesting that £650 is not a lot of money to me? If so you'd be wrong, I've been after such a wheel upgrade for ages. I was suggesting that if he is considering spending £400, then for an extra £250, he would have a much better wheelset. The value of his current bike is not really relevant, the upgrade wheels would be equally useful on a £500 or £5,000 bike.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Not sure what you mean?

"Are you suggesting that £650 is not a lot of money to me?" No. I'm suggesting that recommending £650 for a better set of wheels is disproportionate for a bike valued at £500.
"The value of his current bike is not really relevant, the upgrade wheels would be equally useful on a £500 or £5,000 bike." First part - don't agree (see above). Define useful. Do you mean 'go round'?
You said: "I do find that a good wheel upgrade can make a big difference to a bike."
How did you measure the 'big difference' please?
What is 'reasonably light'? 200g less?
Is there a site which identifies which wheels are more 'aero' than others? Please share it.

 

[bozmandb9]

"Are you suggesting that £650 is not a lot of money to me?" No. I'm suggesting that recommending £650 for a better set of wheels is disproportionate for a bike valued at £500.
"The value of his current bike is not really relevant, the upgrade wheels would be equally useful on a £500 or £5,000 bike." First part - don't agree (see above). Define useful. Do you mean 'go round'?
You said: "I do find that a good wheel upgrade can make a big difference to a bike."
How did you measure the 'big difference' please?
What is 'reasonably light'? 200g less?
Is there a site which identifies which wheels are more 'aero' than others? Please share it.

Have you ever seen a TV show called 'The Big Bang Theory'? ;-)

 

[altecsole]

My bike weighs in at 6.8kg, but sadly it's probably written off by a recent accident, so I'm on a temporary winter bike, with a weight of over 10.5kg. The difference is enormous, it makes the difference between being able to trade with my son, usually, and not being able to on the winter bike.

Weight is probably to aerodynamics if you're getting reasonably quick, and both can be more affected by your body than by the bike, i.e. I lost 20kg's in weight, you'd struggle to lose that from a bike weight, and in aero terms, the biggest gains will be from flexibility.

However, I do find that a good wheel upgrade can make a big difference to a bike. But you'd want to balance three things. One is to get reasonably light, two, aero benefits, and thirdly, good wide internal rims, to enable you to run 25mm or 27 tyres.

Everybody nowadays says going wider is better, but this is only true if your rims are wide enough - if you go wide with narrow rims, you end up with a bulbous shape, which is very inefficient, and very unstable.

In my view, the best value, and the best compromise between weight, aero benefits, and costs, are the Cero RC45 https://www.cycledivision.co.uk/products/wheels/cero-rc45-carbon-clincher-wheelset-0045-f20-r24

Many thanks. That's nearly as much as my bike cost so a bit outside of my price range.

 

[altecsole]

Also be aware that if you get wheels with a "good wide internal rims" a lot of bikes (eg the OP's Cube Peloton Race 2015) will have a clearance problem with 28mm wide (nominal) tyres (at (say) 100psi.

Many thanks. I did consider getting 28mm Continental GP 4s but decided to stick with 25mm as the frame clearance is very tight. Glad I did now! Cheers

 

[altecsole]

"laterally stiff yet vertically compliant"
This article which looks at various bikes is a must read as part of your research:
bikesnob-2008-dream-bike-shootout, - it looks at bikes, but there's a good read-across for a 'shoot-out' between different types of wheel.

'What's this?' I thought when I saw the date was 2008. How can this be relevant today? However, thinking that there might be some fundamental technical insight I decided to have a read. And yes, it is truly enlightening! Who knew that a 3/8" larger head tube bearing would have such a big impact on performance? Brilliant!

 

[Andrew_P]

Many thanks. That's nearly as much as my bike cost so a bit outside of my price range.

But you were considering £420 for a set of Mavics? I hadn't checked your bike to be honest.

"Are you suggesting that £650 is not a lot of money to me?" No. I'm suggesting that recommending £650 for a better set of wheels is disproportionate for a bike valued at £500.
"The value of his current bike is not really relevant, the upgrade wheels would be equally useful on a £500 or £5,000 bike." First part - don't agree (see above). Define useful. Do you mean 'go round'?
You said: "I do find that a good wheel upgrade can make a big difference to a bike."
How did you measure the 'big difference' please?
What is 'reasonably light'? 200g less?
Is there a site which identifies which wheels are more 'aero' than others? Please share it.

I understand where you coming form but in all honestly a wheel upgrade would make a difference to this bike. Are you saying that for instance the £250 Cero AR24 I posted wouldn't make an improvement? If so what are you basing your judgement on?

 

[altecsole]

But you were considering £420 for a set of Mavics? I hadn't checked your bike to be honest.

The best price I'd found was around £380, but I'd also found some on eBay at around £200.

I understand where you coming form but in all honestly a wheel upgrade would make a difference to this bike. Are you saying that for instance the £250 Cero AR24 I posted wouldn't make an improvement? If so what are you basing your judgement on?

I did look at the Cero AR24 you mentioned, but discounted as you also said that...

I think the only time I recall feeling a wheel upgrade was going from No name cheap heavy wheels to Fulcrum 3's\Zondas Couldn't tell any difference going from 3's to Zeros to be honest.

 

[altecsole]

Are you saying that for instance the £250 Cero AR24 I posted wouldn't make an improvement? If so what are you basing your judgement on?

Actually, looking at the Cero AR24 wheels again, they do look like a great set of wheels. A review at http://road.cc/content/review/148314-cero-ar24-wheelset suggest that these are a better option that the Mavics I was originally looking at, although they don't include tyres (whether that's a good, or bad thing). The reviewer really likes them and states:

...the AR24s certainly 'felt faster' than the Mavics or Shimanos inside the same rubber. Out of the saddle effort felt more rewarded, the bike felt more planted in the road and confidence to dive into corners was improved. When hauling on the brakes the machined rim surface helped bring things to a stop without fuss. On their first serious outing I managed to knock 40 seconds off a one-hour, 20-mile hilly benchmark loop...

To be honest, 40 seconds over 20 miles doesn't seem like a massive improvement to me; I can loose 40 seconds on a 5 minute climb and just put it down to tired legs or blustery conditions. I do take your point though that there is probably no good reason to spend the extra on the Mavics if these offer a similar spec and performance. Cheers.

 

[Andrew_P]

Actually, looking at the Cero AR24 wheels again, they do look like a great set of wheels. A review at http://road.cc/content/review/148314-cero-ar24-wheelset suggest that these are a better option that the Mavics I was originally looking at, although they don't include tyres (whether that's a good, or bad thing). The reviewer really likes them and states: To be honest, 40 seconds over 20 miles doesn't seem like a massive improvement to me; I can loose 40 seconds on a 5 minute climb and just put it down to tired legs or blustery conditions. I do take your point though that there is probably no good reason to spend the extra on the Mavics if these offer a similar spec and performance. Cheers.

The Zero's was from Racing 3's was a big jump in price and no perceivable difference but the 3's are still £350 wheelset, I am assuming your Fulcrums are a slight cheaper version of 7's made to a budget for Cube so using price a £100 wheelset. The AR24 were lighter on the scales than the Zero's and didn't feel £500 worse. As I said in my first post I felt a difference going from cheap to mid range wheels but I think to see much difference on branded wheels after 350-400 you would have to spend fortunes. The newer AR24' are lighter than the ones reviewed. I think if you look online they are known rim used by wheel builders anyway as is the hub.