Wheel upgrades.

[steveindenmark]

I wasnt sure where to put this, but I want people to see it so they can comment.

A bit of background first. Im 60 next year. I have never joined a cycling club and I have never ridden an Audax ride. I ride at least 150km, every week of the year, as long as the snow and ice allows.

Next year I will be invited to ride in the Transcontinental Race......Oh yes! A bit of a step up.

If I ride, it will be for the experience and getting to the finishers party in 15 days is the furthest thing from my mind. Getting to the end at some stage would be nice. But it is not the be all and end all of my world.

So I am putting a bike together. I will ride my Genesis Croix de Fer 20, steel bike. I will change the gearing to make it up mountains a bit easier. But I did get up Monte Grappa twice this summer and so mountains dont frighten me too much.

I am now thinking about wheelsets. I dont ride fast. An average of about 20kph over a 100km ride on 35c tyres. I am changing the tyres to Schwalbe Pro one 28s and hope that will speed me up a little. The wheels are Alex rim Draw 1.9P and are tubeless ready. Although I will ride with tubes as I have no experience with tubeless. I can fix a tyre with tubes in the rain and in a blackout.

Is there any point at all in paying £300-£1000 for a new wheelset? I am testing the Alex rims to destruction over the winter on all surface. I have done over 1000km on them now and they are still true and run well. They have really been battered.

I know at least 3 of the top ten finishers on the TRC this year, had big problems with their expensive wheelsets. Do I bother or do I just get a SON 28 dynamo fitted to the front wheel? If I were racing, I would go for the wheelset. But a grand pays for a lot of food and accomodation.

I would appreciate some sensible answers. By the way. If Thomas Bjorn calls and asks if I want to be in the next Ryder Cup team, instead of watching it on the TV. I will be in there like a shot. Even if my handicap is 19.

 

[BurningLegs]

That sounds like a fantastic opportunity, @steveindenmark - I bet you're really looking forward to it!

For what it's worth, I use the Schwalbe Pro One 28s on my "do it all" CX bike that I use for all my road riding and commuting. I think they're fantastic tyres - they roll nice and quickly and I haven't had any reliability issues so far (but I've only done a few hundred miles). I even take them on gravel paths and they have been fine.

For a ride like you are planning, I think reliability counts for a lot, and I think I would stick to the wheels that I know and trust rather than swap them out. What is making you consider changing them, the weight?

 

[uphillstruggler]

I cant offer any ideas on the choice of wheels but can say good luck with the opportunity to ride this. I would say burning legs makes a good point about trusting what you know, if I ever had a chance like this, that's what I would do.

best of luck with it @steveindenmark

 

[I like Skol]

There are two replies here unfortunately.

1, 1000km for a set of wheels should be nothing, a mere drop in the ocean, especially with disc brakes as the rims don't get worn by the brakes. I have a set on my hybrid that have covered at least 15,000 miles and are showing no signs of needing replacement anytime soon. They have had plenty of abuse carrying heavy loads and being used for riding off-road and down flights of steps etc..... Your wheels should be perfect for a long time yet.

2, The original wheels on my hybrid had Alex rims and these were great and needed no attention, until about 1800 miles when the rims started cracking around the spoke nipples. This sort of thing just can't be predicted and if this really is a ride of a lifetime then it might be worth getting some sensible handbuilt wheels from a reputable wheelbuilder. £300-400 should get you an excellent bombproof set built to your requirements so you don't have to be worried during your ride. The only other thing I suggest is if you do get new wheels, do it now so you can get some use out of them before the big ride and find any possible faults at home rather than during the event.

 

[steveindenmark]

What my intention is at the moment is to keep hammering these wheels all through the winter and put a few thousand km on them and see how they handle it. It will also give me the chance to test the Schwalbe tyres out as well. TCR will not be until end of July, beginning of August and so if the Alex rims hold out OK I can always order another set in the Spring. If they dont hold out I can order a bespoke set in the Spring and still have plenty of time to test them out.

 

[steveindenmark]

That sounds like a fantastic opportunity, @steveindenmark - I bet you're really looking forward to it!

I am not sure if "Really looking forward to it" is the right term. Not until I have got some decent multi day rides in anyway.

For what it's worth, I use the Schwalbe Pro One 28s on my "do it all" CX bike that I use for all my road riding and commuting. I think they're fantastic tyres - they roll nice and quickly and I haven't had any reliability issues so far (but I've only done a few hundred miles). I even take them on gravel paths and they have been fine.

For a ride like you are planning, I think reliability counts for a lot, and I think I would stick to the wheels that I know and trust rather than swap them out. What is making you consider changing them, the weight?

Its a very good question and the honest answer is "Because that is what people tend to do on the TCR" I dont want to fall into that trap for any of my gear. I want it tested to destruction by me, well before the race starts. I want to know that it performs and where my gear fits on it. I bought an Apidura frame bag and seat pack that I dont particularly like. I have gone back to Biltima front roller panniers on the back. Biltima is sort of a Scandanavian Halfords. The panniers are about 3 years old and live on my bike. They are tough, waterproof and work just as I like.

I dont want to spend money on things I dont need. I would rather spend it on the ride itself.

 

[Ajax Bay]

First of all, Steve, bravo on preparing to take this on.

I have never ridden an Audax ride. I ride at least 150km, every week . . [mostly]
I dont ride fast. An average of about 20kph over a 100km ride on 35c tyres. I am changing the tyres to Schwalbe Pro one 28s and hope that will speed me up a little. The wheels are Alex rim Draw 1.9P

Have you chosen not to ride audaxes for a reason? These rides, especially longer ones, will present you with excellent opportunites to test your bike, your set-up (ie luggage) and yourself (including night riding and overnight routine). Perhaps this scene is better in UK than in Denmark.
Why do you want to go for narrower tyres? I think you are going to be more comfortable on a long ride with the extra width and the average speed advantage of running a narrower tyre would be minimal/non-existent (choice of tyre make/model important) (qv)). On your (19mm internal width) rims, 28s are marginal too narrow so 32s or even stick to 35/37s - the option to run wide tyres is one of the advantages of disc brakes. I would look at the Vittoria Voyager Hyper (if you stick to a wider tyre) or if you do go for 28s, be aware the Continental GP 4000 SII come in 28-622 which on my 15 rim width come up at 29+mm and would be more than 30 on your 19mm rims. And the test site I've linked to has them at very low rolling resistance and sufficiently robust.
For a venture of this length I think a hub generator is a most attractive option and worth paying for. The complications of keeping stuff charged when tired, night after night, is much reduced and you can use devices without worrying about energy conservation (ie avoiding flat batteries). For both Mille Pennines and London-Edinburgh-London this summer I chose to use batteries and a power pack rather than a generator because I could tailor my ride to minimise the time I spent riding in the dark. But LEL offered much more support, and the option to send drop-bags up the road, with assured access to them.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

What my intention is at the moment is to keep hammering these wheels all through the winter and put a few thousand km on them and see how they handle it. It will also give me the chance to test the Schwalbe tyres out as well. TCR will not be until end of July, beginning of August and so if the Alex rims hold out OK I can always order another set in the Spring. If they dont hold out I can order a bespoke set in the Spring and still have plenty of time to test them out.

Since wheel damage is metal fatigue brought on by accumulative riding, the best way forward is to NOT ride them until your big ride.

 

[steveindenmark]

First of all, Steve, bravo on preparing to take this on.

Have you chosen not to ride audaxes for a reason? These rides, especially longer ones, will present you with excellent opportunites to test your bike, your set-up (ie luggage) and yourself (including night riding and overnight routine). Perhaps this scene is better in UK than in Denmark.
Why do you want to go for narrower tyres? I think you are going to be more comfortable on a long ride with the extra width and the average speed advantage of running a narrower tyre would be minimal/non-existent (choice of tyre make/model important) (qv)). On your (19mm internal width) rims, 28s are marginal too narrow so 32s or even stick to 35/37s - the option to run wide tyres is one of the advantages of disc brakes. I would look at the Vittoria Voyager Hyper (if you stick to a wider tyre) or if you do go for 28s, be aware the Continental GP 4000 SII come in 28-622 which on my 15 rim width come up at 29+mm and would be more than 30 on your 19mm rims. And the test site I've linked to has them at very low rolling resistance and sufficiently robust.
For a venture of this length I think a hub generator is a most attractive option and worth paying for. The complications of keeping stuff charged when tired, night after night, is much reduced and you can use devices without worrying about energy conservation (ie avoiding flat batteries). For both Mille Pennines and London-Edinburgh-London this summer I chose to use batteries and a power pack rather than a generator because I could tailor my ride to minimise the time I spent riding in the dark. But LEL offered much more support, and the option to send drop-bags up the road, with assured access to them.

The Audax scene in Denmark is very limited and to be honest I would prefer to prepare to ride by myself. It is how it will be in the TCR. Since the summer I am increasing my distance bit by bit. At the start of the summer, my 20km ride was enough and I welcomed the break. I am now steadily riding 50-60-70km without any problem. I will continue edging the distances up as time goes on and have even invested in an indoor trainer and a Wahoo speed and cadence sensor. I am going high tech. During the winter I just keep riding outside as rule, so training indoors will make a change. The plan I have at the moment is to ride multi 250km days. After 21 days I will either be at the finish or close enough to the finish to decide whether to push on or find an airport. I want to experience being in the TCR as well as experiencing some of the countries I ride through. I think the biggest regret of previous TCR riders is seeing nothing at all during their rides.

With regards to tyres. I was at CP2 on the TCR this year and the tyre of choice was the Continental GP 4000 S11. Most riders had it. But nobody was on 35c tyres. With the CDF I also have a front mudguard on and the slightest bit of mud under it starts to rub and grind. Its annoying and so a smaller tyre does make sense. Some of the TCR guys are switching from the Continentals to The Schwalbe and so I thought I would give it a go. If it doesnt work, I have plenty of bikes they can go on.

If the weather is anything like this year in Italy, a lot of my riding will be in the dark. It was roasting in Italy and probably the biggest cause of scratches. Apart from that I like riding in the dark. But I have enough battery powered gear that I may stick with it and not get the dynamo. I have a 20100 battery back and the wahoo and Garmin charge up quickly. The battery pack would last a few days and I would be bivvying and hotelling it.

 

[Cuchilo]

Maybe @frank9755 could help with some advise .

 

[winjim]

Since wheel damage is metal fatigue brought on by accumulative riding, the best way forward is to NOT ride them until your big ride.

If it's a similar wheelset to the one on my CdF then it's Alex rims on Shimano hubs with plain gauge spokes. If that's the case would you consider it worthwhile for Steve to simply get his current hubs and rims rebuilt with decent double butted spokes?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

If it's a similar wheelset to the one on my CdF then it's Alex rims on Shimano hubs with plain gauge spokes. If that's the case would you consider it worthwhile for Steve to simply get his current hubs and rims rebuilt with decent double butted spokes?

Yes, I won't undertake any longish/expensive trip with plain gauge spokes. Double-butted and stress relieved. The other components you list are durable and serviceable.

 

[frank9755]

In choosing wheels the second question to ask, after 'why do you want them', is 'how heavy are you?' That will dictate what is or isn't sensible.

Subject to your weight, you don't need particularly special wheels to ride TCR, although nice wheels are a source of pleasure. I don't know anything about your current wheels but I'd recommend something with a chunky rim as they will be stronger on any off road sections. If you want to get new ones, I'd find a wheelbuilder and go with their advice rather than buying a set of factory ones. They'll ask what you weigh before advising.
Getthem early and get used to them, but don't wear them out over winter.

Your frame should be fine, as should your tyres.

You could get a dynamo but you don't need one. Not getting one would be a good way to save a lot of money. I don't have one and have managed fine with 4-5 days between hotel stops. Evan Deutsch, Mike H and Josh ibbett all won TABR or TCR without one.

Finally, how would you get home? You might not be able to take that battery on a plane. IATA rules say your can have up to 10 Ah and you can have up to four of them.

 

[steveindenmark]

When I came home from Italy this year I just left it in the top tube bag on the bike. Nothing was said.

I changed the Tubes from 35c to Schwalbe Pro One 28s today and I'm asking myself how much comfort do you give away for a little extra speed? I'm not looking at doing it in 15 days. Just finishing at some time would be good. I think 30 or 32c would be good but these 28c tyres are just too racey and lose a lot of the comfort.

 

[Ajax Bay]

I'm asking myself how much comfort do you give away for a little extra speed? . . . I think 30 or 32c would be good but these 28c tyres are just too racey and lose a lot of the comfort.

A fair bit of comfort surrendered, and for not much extra speed. The challenge is to find a wider tyre that both isn't too heavy and 'rolls well'. I made some suggestions upthread.

With the CDF I also have a front mudguard on and the slightest bit of mud under it starts to rub and grind. Its annoying

I'd hold onto the mudguard (but I bet you can quote lots of riders in previous TCRs that didn't mount them). In the TCR scheme of things, how many of the roads are going to cause a build up of mud? What I would do is see how I might lift the mudguard as close to underside of the fork crown to maximise space for a deeper tyre. But you have been riding 35s under them, so 32s (measured width on whichever rims you end up using) should remove that source of annoyance.