When is blood doping not blood doping?

[smutchin]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cas...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

I don't know how I feel about this. Technically, it wasn't illegal at the time but even so...

Hmmm.

I suppose it shouldn't come as any surprise that even vocally anti-doping riders are indulging in practices that test the definition of what is and isn't legal.

 

[Crackle]

How did this get around the IV rules?

I don't have any doubts: Kittel is a hypocrite. I've just crossed him off my xmas card list.

 

[User169]

Intruiged by one of the posts below the line..


"If it is not listed on the banned list it is legal, just like all the alledged high blood pressure meds people say Sky is taking, they are not on a banned listed"

Hadn't seen anything specific mentioned about Sky before - what are these blood pressure thingys?

 

[Milzy]

Intruiged by one of the posts below the line..


"If it is not listed on the banned list it is legal, just like all the alledged high blood pressure meds people say Sky is taking, they are not on a banned listed"

Hadn't seen anything specific mentioned about Sky before - what are these blood pressure thingys?

My guess is that if your BP is higher then the flow of Oxygen will travel around the body much quicker. I suppose a fit circulatory system can take very high BP safely for a good few hours. Wouldn't be wise for some Doner kebab eating, overweight middle aged Cyclechat lurker to take though.

 

[thom]

Hadn't seen anything specific mentioned about Sky before - what are these blood pressure thingys?

Coffee beans ?

 

[User169]

My guess is that if your BP is higher then the flow of Oxygen will travel around the body much quicker. I suppose a fit circulatory system can take very high BP safely for a good few hours. Wouldn't be wise for some Doner kebab eating, overweight middle aged Cyclechat lurker to take though.

Google comes up with Telmisartan, although it's a vasodilator so would bring BP down. Not on the WADA list apparently and seems to act on the same receptor as AICAR.

 

[rich p]

I fairness to Kittel, when this first came out he explained that he was naïve and only 18. It wasn't illegal then and he has been vehemently and vocally anti-doping ever since. I will, therefore, cut him some slack and send him a Christmas card.

 

[Crackle]

I fairness to Kittel, when this first came out he explained that he was naïve and only 18. It wasn't illegal then and he has been vehemently and vocally anti-doping ever since. I will, therefore, cut him some slack and send him a Christmas card.

I didn't know that. OK, back on the list then. I do vaguely remember something about it now but didn't remember it was Kittel

 

[Crackle]

Intruiged by one of the posts below the line..


"If it is not listed on the banned list it is legal, just like all the alledged high blood pressure meds people say Sky is taking, they are not on a banned listed"

Hadn't seen anything specific mentioned about Sky before - what are these blood pressure thingys?

I think the key word is alleged, especially if it's in the comments section. Stuff like that we would hope that Walsh picks up on.

 

[gavintc]

So Kittel moves into the category of doper with a nice little question mark The fact he was prepared to consider 'legal doping' means that he is now a suspect in my opinion.

 

[ufkacbln]

This will always be an ethical dilemma

If two athletes of similar ability compete and one has enhanced their performance - is it an honest win?

An example is the low pressure oxygen tent - used to increase the capacity and number of red blood cells. Undeniably enhances the athletes performance, and effectively the same result as taking EPO. in 2006 there was even a discussion by the WADA as to whether these tents should be banned on the grounds that they "enhanced performance, and violated the "spirit" of sport"

Arguably the synthetic EPO is able to achieve greater levels of enhancement than the tent, which theoretically only allows a natural maximum, but in both cases the athlete is choosing to enhance their performance.

If the WADA do at any time review this and ban these tents then the list of athletes who will have "cheated" is staggering

f course you then have the further quandary where if the use of the tents is banned and an athlete then trains at altitude to achieve the same effect is this still cheating, or is it simply the oxygen tent?

 

[smutchin]

Google comes up with Telmisartan, although it's a vasodilator so would bring BP down. Not on the WADA list apparently and seems to act on the same receptor as AICAR.

"Seems to" being the operative words. AIUI, the performance-enhancing claims of Telmisartan are far from proven. But this is precisely the kind of thing some people are referring to when they talk about Sky using methods that "aren't banned yet". I understand why people think that, and it seems highly likely that a number of riders are using Telmisartan. I don't want to come across as a blinkered Brailsford fanboy but I'd like to think Sky are investing their money more wisely, in scientifically proven methods.

AICAR is different to Telmisartan because it isn't licensed for human use.

 

[smutchin]

in 2006 there was even a discussion by the WADA as to whether these tents should be banned on the grounds that they "enhanced performance, and violated the "spirit" of sport"

2006? That was seven years ago. The fact that they still haven't banned them should tell you all you need to know.

 

[rich p]

This will always be an ethical dilemma

If two athletes of similar ability compete and one has enhanced their performance - is it an honest win?

An example is the low pressure oxygen tent - used to increase the capacity and number of red blood cells. Undeniably enhances the athletes performance, and effectively the same result as taking EPO. in 2006 there was even a discussion by the WADA as to whether these tents should be banned on the grounds that they "enhanced performance, and violated the "spirit" of sport"

Arguably the synthetic EPO is able to achieve greater levels of enhancement than the tent, which theoretically only allows a natural maximum, but in both cases the athlete is choosing to enhance their performance.

If the WADA do at any time review this and ban these tents then the list of athletes who will have "cheated" is staggering

f course you then have the further quandary where if the use of the tents is banned and an athlete then trains at altitude to achieve the same effect is this still cheating, or is it simply the oxygen tent?

Welcome back to the Pro-racing section. Great tour wasn't it?

 

[smutchin]

I fairness to Kittel, when this first came out he explained that he was naïve and only 18. It wasn't illegal then and he has been vehemently and vocally anti-doping ever since. I will, therefore, cut him some slack and send him a Christmas card.

I will cut him some slack but I'm still a little disappointed.