Which is best Crank or hub drive

[Drago]

But hub motors are geared too with their own gearing (aside from those cheap direct drive ones that originate from China).

Direct drive motors certainly have an optimum RPM, or at least do not perform well at very low revs. Again, most hub motors are geared anyway, which negates that problem.

As a very heavy rider I find neither system has any difficulty assisting me, and ride times on known routes are closely comparable. The only conclusion is that, on tarmac at least where mass centralisation is not a concern, that there is no noteworthy performance difference. The idea that one system will scamper away from another on a steep incline does not bear scrutiny when applied to reality. Advising a prospective buy to choose mid drive on that basis is deeply flawed.

 

[Pale Rider]

I still want to use peddle power, just need that extra assistance there are 3 routes 1 route is 1 hour 45 1 hour 42 the other 1 hr 49

Irrespective of motor choice, a problem you will have is a legal ebike will slow you down.

Looks like you are averaging close to 20mph, which you will not be able to manage on a bike restricted to 15.5mph.

 

[Turdus philomelos]

I still want to use peddle power

Then maybe you need to look at overall weight too then. My bike is well over 20kg laden with panniers. Good luck in search.

 

[gzoom]

@

Irrespective of motor choice, a problem you will have is a legal ebike will slow you down.

Looks like you are averaging close to 20mph, which you will not be able to manage on a bike restricted to 15.5mph.

It might not be slower but probably not much faster. It will make a difference to perceived effort though.

My average speeds on my roadbike and eBike is virtually identical. Though the eBike does offer the luxury of disc brakes, mudguards, lights.

It all depends on what you are after, my eBike is letting me commute to work all winter, as having the motor assistance really helps combat head wind/rain etc which isn't fun on any bike.

I do wish the eBike was lighter, you really feel the weight difference when riding. Hopefully one day we'll get sub 10kg eBikes with solid state batteries.

It should be possible as I see disc brake road bikes are now dipping under 6kg at top spec builds, though how much more a motor+battery would add to a £10k Specialized Aethos build I suspect would be very scary .

 

[Pale Rider]

Hopefully one day we'll get sub 10kg eBikes with solid state batteries.

I'm not holding my breath - advances in battery technology are glacially slow.

Lithium ion was a jump forward from lead acid about 15 years ago, but nothing has happened since.

The energy density of my 2010 Bosch battery is all but identical to a 2020 one.

I've lost count of the number of stories about promising laboratory batteries, but none ever reach the market.

No doubt the scientists are doing their best, and someone will crack it one day.

But you only have to look at electric cars to see that day is a long way off.

Despite the huge research and development budgets of the motor industry, the best they can come up with is still lithium cells, just lots and lots of them.

 

[Zanelad]

Irrespective of motor choice, a problem you will have is a legal ebike will slow you down.

Looks like you are averaging close to 20mph, which you will not be able to manage on a bike restricted to 15.5mph.

Not sure how. You can cycle faster than 15.5 mph, you'll just not get any assistance from the bike.

I notice a slight drag as the assistance on my ebike cuts out, but above 16-17mph it's no different from a "normal" bike. I can maintain an easy(ish) 21-22mph on mine I until my ageing body cries enough.

 

[jowwy]

i have 2 x crank drive E mtbs and they are both brilliant machines, probably because they are both Cube Acid's, one with a 500wh battery and one with a 400wh battery.......

ive not ridden a hub motor emtb, but i am intrigued by the ribble and orbea offerings, but i dont think the level of torque would be high enough for me

 

[oldworld]

Indeed. Very cheap bikes and kits simply sense the roation of the chainset to provide the assistance, but this is real bottom end stuff. Anything even halfway decent uses torque sensing, which feels much more natural - the more power you pour on, the more the bike assists.

However, cheap mid drive systems - mainly conversion kits - can also have simple rotation sensors instead of torque sensing. Thats more a function of price point than an inherent difference between the 2 systems.

I'm a bit lost with torque sensing and rotation sensors on kits. I've not found an ebike that I like so I'm thinking of adapting my current bike.
I've been looking at the Bafang middle drive kits but can't find information about torque or rotation sensors, maybe they don't have either?

 

[CXRAndy]

I'm a bit lost with torque sensing and rotation sensors on kits. I've not found an ebike that I like so I'm thinking of adapting my current bike.
I've been looking at the Bafang middle drive kits but can't find information about torque or rotation sensors, maybe they don't have either?

Bafang are speed sensor motors. That means once the pedals are turning, you get a set amount of assistance- depending on what level you have selected. You don't even have to apply force on the pedals.

Torque sensing like the TSDZ2 multiply your input power. The amount of assistance is factored by assistance level and rider input

 

[Pale Rider]

Not sure how. You can cycle faster than 15.5 mph, you'll just not get any assistance from the bike.

How likely is it the OP's quoted times are deliberately slower than he could easily manage?

 

[rivers]

How likely is it the OP's quoted times are deliberately slower than he could easily manage?

or even what he is getting as times from google maps for different routes

 

[Notafettler]

I have only had one, a kalkhoff crank drive. All the experts appear to be saying crank drive is better than hub drive. But the point the OP is making is making the journey easier and both will achieve that. With the length of journey I would only be interested in reliability and nothing else. I would suggest @Pale Rider is the best one to ask. As an aside hub gears are more reliable and will last considerably longer. Which means crank drive?

 

[Notafettler]

How likely is it the OP's quoted times are deliberately slower than he could easily manage?

How likely is it possible that they are faster! Google maps appear to think I can get there faster than I actually can....or to be more precise want to!
Even using my electric bike i would at times struggle to get there in the time they say. Do the tosser even take into account the effect of Hills on cyclists compared to cars? Or the trailer I am pulling...forgot about the latter!

 

[gbb]

I err towards Dragos theory, torque is torque, power is power whether its hub or mid drive. Weight distribution, serviceability, reliability, cost, quality and even personal experience and preference are the options to consider imo.
Weight distribution, probably not even relevant on the road ?
Serviceability, no doubt the likes of Bosch have an excellent backup but my hub drive has been trouble free over 3000 miles plus and still working well.
Personal experience...we have both systems within the family and I prefer my hub drive, it feels like its giving you something, a kick, but my wife's Bosch mid drive feels benign, it gives you no sense of its input...which perhaps some people would like, but I don't personally.

 

[Pale Rider]

I err towards Dragos theory, torque is torque, power is power whether its hub or mid drive. Weight distribution, serviceability, reliability, cost, quality and even personal experience and preference are the options to consider imo.
Weight distribution, probably not even relevant on the road ?
Serviceability, no doubt the likes of Bosch have an excellent backup but my hub drive has been trouble free over 3000 miles plus and still working well.
Personal experience...we have both systems within the family and I prefer my hub drive, it feels like its giving you something, a kick, but my wife's Bosch mid drive feels benign, it gives you no sense of its input...which perhaps some people would like, but I don't personally.

I agree with your remarks about the ride of the Bosch system.

Most of the time I like its unobtrusive nature, although there are times when I wish it had more obvious in your face grunt.

Backup is a mixed picture because not all Bosch dealers have the relatively cheap diagnostic kit.

The term 'Bosch dealer' is something of a misnomer, 'reseller' would be more accurate.

Most bike shops become Bosch resellers by default when bike brands they already sell introduce Bosch bikes into their catalogue.