Who's at fault....Lorry driver, cyclist or the cycle lane designer?

[al78]

No such thing as "accidental murder" but if a lorry driver is drunk,speeding, chatting on a mobile, has fiddled the tacho or knowingly taken an unsafe, illegal vehicle on the roads it is no more an "accident" than a death caused by firing a gun along a crowded high street.

I disagree. I think there needs to be a distinction between those cases where someone made a mistake which happened to result in a death/injury, those situations where someone did something reckless, but not intending to put someone in danger, but which resulted in a death/injury, and those cases where someone was deliberately trying to cause death/injury.

It is important to consider the mindset of the perpetrator, not just the final outcome, as the ultimate future threat to the public is dependent on that mindset.

 

[dawesome]

How do you get drunk, chat on a mobile or take an unsafe vehicle on the roads "accidentally"? If a driver acts recklessly it's no good saying "I didn't mean to hurt anyone!".

 

[gaz]

How do you get drunk, chat on a mobile or take an unsafe vehicle on the roads "accidentally"? If a driver acts recklessly it's no good saying "I didn't mean to hurt anyone!".

Especially when they are taking a motorised vehicle surrounded by metal that can seriously injure someone if not careful, basically a weapon.

 

[dawesome]

It's the gun analogy again, fire a gun down a busy high street then try the excuse "I didn't mean to hurt anyone!".

If you take a dangerous vehicle on the roads or distract yourself with a phone, drugs, alcohol, whatever, calling the almost inevitable death or injury an "accident" is stupid.

 

[Norm]

It's the gun analogy again, fire a gun down a busy high street then try the excuse "I didn't mean to hurt anyone!".

If you take a dangerous vehicle on the roads or distract yourself with a phone, drugs, alcohol, whatever, calling the almost inevitable death or injury an "accident" is stupid.

'almost inevitable death or injury'?

 

[Hip Priest]

This nitpicking over the word 'accident' is tiresome. Unless someone deliberately intends to have a collision, then the collision is an accident, regardless of how careless they may have been.

I rear-ended someone at a junction once. It was an accident because I didn't mean it to happen.

 

[dawesome]

An accident is unavoidable. You could have avoided your collision.

 

[Hip Priest]

I suggest you consult a dictionary.

 

[Norm]

I suggest you consult a dictionary.

I even posted a link to one for the last person to make that mistake.

 

[Hip Priest]

I can understand differences of opinion on internet fora, but I can't understand the need to argue over established facts. Trying to re-define the meaning of the word 'accident', as dawesome insists on doing, is futile.

You may as well argue that the word orange means a long, curved, yellow fruit.

 

[Boris Bajic]

It's the gun analogy again, fire a gun down a busy high street then try the excuse "I didn't mean to hurt anyone!".

If you take a dangerous vehicle on the roads or distract yourself with a phone, drugs, alcohol, whatever, calling the almost inevitable death or injury an "accident" is stupid.

Certainly something here is stupid. It may be as you have it.

On the other hand, it may be your unusual attempt to change the definition of the word 'accident'.

I'm not as young as I was and not as bright as I ought to be.

I fear you may lack either access to a dictionary or the ability to use one. Keep trying. It will come. We're all right behind you.

 

[dawesome]

An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.

If you get drunk and crash into someone it's not an accident, because you didn't get drunk by accident, and driving whilst drunk means it's more likely you will make a mistake, because alcohol impairs judgement.

 

[Norm]

Who needs a dictionary when you can attempt to prove whatever you want through blind arrogance and proud ignorance.

 

[dawesome]

This is vitally important, people need to understand why using seemingly innocuous words can be critical. A traffic accident is now called a road traffic crash or incident. The word "accident" implies that there was no one at fault whereas at least 97% of incidents involve driver error. If a driver drinks seven pints of Stella and crashes into a cyclist then calling it an "accident" is dangerous- it was a collision caused by driver neglect and/or incompetence .Somehow the use of the word "accident" neutralises it, and that seems to me to be wrong, and the same reason why the emergency response crews use RTC, not RTA.

 

[Hip Priest]

This is vitally important, people need to understand why using seemingly innocuous words can be critical. A traffic accident is now called a road traffic crash or incident. The word "accident" implies that there was no one at fault whereas at least 97% of incidents involve driver error. If a driver drinks seven pints of Stella and crashes into a cyclist then calling it an "accident" is dangerous- it was a collision caused by driver neglect and/or incompetence .Somehow the use of the word "accident" neutralises it, and that seems to me to be wrong, and the same reason why the emergency response crews use RTC, not RTA.

The word accident doesn't imply a lack of fault in my mind. When I had my collisiont, it was definitely my fault, but it was still an accident.

If someone drinks seven pints of Stella and crashes into a cyclist then they should be severely punished for causing an accident by driving under the influence.