Who's at fault....Lorry driver, cyclist or the cycle lane designer?

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dawesome

Senior Member
The wonderful Cynthia Barlow:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/specials/1331_testimonies/page10.shtml

Alex Jane McVitty, killed June 2000


"My daughter was killed in June 2000. She was cycling to work in the City of London, when she was knocked from her bike and run over by the driver of a concrete mixer lorry turning left across her path. She was my only child and the most precious person in my life. Then she was dead.

It was a shattering and unbelievable blow for me. I was desperate to come to some understanding of how my daughter’s death had occurred because she was an experienced and responsible cyclist.

I had a number of questions I wanted to put to the driver during the hearing but the barrister who represented me was not allowed to question the driver. The inquest verdict was ‘accidental death’, because it always is, and it is utterly meaningless.




The police did not contact me at all for months, and then only at my initiative because I learned by chance that the driver was going to be prosecuted for the minor traffic offence of careless driving.

I needed to know what evidence was going before the court so as to prepare myself for it but, again, crucial information was not given to me. I had asked if there was any visual evidence that was going to be shown in the court which I would need to be aware of and was told there was not - but in fact the police had made a compilation video from security camera videos along her route, showing my daughter cycling to her death. I saw this for the first time in court, and then had to watch it over and over again during the trial.

The policeman who had taken the driver’s statement said that he could not read his own writing, and so crucial questions, which again I hoped could be put to the driver, were ruled out. The conduct of the prosecution was incompetent and the driver was acquitted.

I was deeply traumatized by the whole experience.

I brought up my daughter to be a worthwhile member of society. I had always obeyed the law and worked hard and paid my taxes, and carried out my duties as a citizen, but when I needed the state to carry out its duties towards me, it failed.

And I am not alone. Countless families have been failed in the same way. The death of a child is enough to cope with, but I felt that the law then compounded this misery by systematically marginalising me and making me feel irrelevant in the death of my own child. Our shocking reality is denied and a life sentence of unresolved anguish is imposed on the bereaved.

Road deaths are not ‘accidents’ - unavoidable, unforeseeable, inevitable, unpreventable sequences of events. They have causes and they are all avoidable.

In the case of my daughter’s death, I did my own analysis of what happened, and what needed to be done about it. I then bought shares in the company, which owned the cement lorry and went to their Annual General Meeting to speak about my experience and my suggestions for action. They agreed to work with me and since then I have been involved in various training initiatives for their drivers, and trials are underway on a number of adaptations to the vehicles, improvements which are also being adopted by other companies."

Road deaths are not ‘accidents’ - unavoidable, unforeseeable, inevitable, unpreventable sequences of events. They have causes and they are all avoidable.
Cynthis Barlow, Alex's mother.
 

Norm

Guest
Boris thinks all black people are criminals based on some emails he got. I can demonstrate with evidence that HGV drivers are frequently lawless, reckless and lethal. See the difference?
It's ok, dawesome, you don't need to spell it out quite so blatantly, everyone has already picked up your inadequacy at comprehension.
 

Hip Priest

Veteran
Road deaths are not ‘accidents’ - unavoidable, unforeseeable, inevitable, unpreventable sequences of events. They have causes and they are all avoidable.
Cynthis Barlow, Alex's mother.

She's making the same errors in comprehension as you. Her daughter's death was undoubtedly avoidable, foreseeable, preventable and had causes, but it was still an accident, unless the lorry driver did it deliberately.

Drivers who kill should face harsher penalties, for sure. They're in charge of potentially dangerous vehicles and should face the consequences of their mistakes.

But trying to redefine the word 'accident' is a waste of time and effot.
 

subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
She's making the same errors in comprehension as you. Her daughter's death was undoubtedly avoidable, foreseeable, preventable and had causes, but it was still an accident, unless the lorry driver did it deliberately.

in Dawesomes mind , the lorry driver probably did
 

dawesome

Senior Member
The lorry driver deliberately overtook a cyclist and turned left.

Alex was an experienced cyclist on a familiar route along London Wall, and she was wearing a high-visibility sash. She was alongside the lorry for a considerable distance and the police evidence found that she was visible in at least one of the driver’s mirrors the whole time. He pulled out to the right at a junction in order to turn sharp left, cutting across her path. He didn’t know he’d run her down. The noise of passers-by alerted him and he stopped.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/ca1fca5e-9f6c-11df-8732-00144feabdc0.html#axzz203Pj8mpg

An accident is an uncontrolled event. The driver caused a death by being careless. He could have prevented the death of Alex. He didn't.No accident.
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Boris thinks all black people are criminals based on some emails he got.
I assume that this refers to me as it was my post about the emails and stuff, but you've blamed Boris, this seems rather clumsy and demonstrates a lack of attention on your part, I do hope it was an accident.
 

dawesome

Senior Member
An accident may be defined as:
“An unplanned, uncontrolled event which has led to or could have led to injury to people, damage to plant, machinery or the environment and/or some other loss

http://www.rospa.com/faqs/detail.aspx?faq=255
 

dawesome

Senior Member

Hip Priest

Veteran
any unplanned, uncontrolled, unwanted, or undesirable event,

And surely in the case you site, the death of the cyclist was certainly unplanned, unwanted and undesirable. And possibly uncontrolled too, depending on how the use of that word is intended by the HSE.
 

Norm

Guest
Safety Management - ACCIDENTS An accident can be defined as "any unplanned, uncontrolled, unwanted, or undesirable event, or sudden mishap that interrupts an activity or function."

http://www.writework.com/essay/safety-management-accidents-accident-can-defined-any-unpla

It's actually enshrined in HSE legislation:



http://www.stfc.ac.uk/SHE/Codes/20797.aspx
Now you aren't even understanding what you are quoting yourself.

However you may want to play with the text sizes to hide it, they both say unplanned and neither mentions blame, so that's not exactly adding anything to the thread or justifying your continued inabilities at comprehension.
 
Boris thinks all black people are criminals based on some emails he got. I can demonstrate with evidence that HGV drivers are frequently lawless, reckless and lethal. See the difference?

The above reads like bunkum and if the Boris referred to is me, it is offensive and wrong.

Just for the record, I do not think all black people are criminals. I have never received any emails suggesting they are.

There are (as far as I am aware) no criminals in my extended family.

Dawesome, was this a reference to me and can you please explain it if it was.
 

DRHysted

Guru
Location
New Forest
I can demonstrate with evidence that HGV drivers are frequently lawless, reckless and lethal.

And yet my actual experiance with lorry drivers contradicts everything you have typed. I'd say it must be a regional thing, but the products come from all over the world, and we export all over the world. Which means I have contact with various foreign drivers as well as domestic, most of which know mutil languages, with full ADR knowledge, and would never take a risk with their trucks.
I can fully understand their dislike of yourself after you called them drunken neanderthals, especially as they have to attend medicals, and regular ADR training after getting a license to use the Queens highway. When in all truth a cyclist can just get out and ride without no knowledge of the highway code, or any training.

At the end of the day this accident was fully avoidable by the cyclist not attempting to undertake the lorry without enougth room to complete saftely, the proof of this is that he got hit. It's a manouver I would never consider safe, and never attempt FULL STOP.
 
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