Who's at fault....Lorry driver, cyclist or the cycle lane designer?

[snorri]

The comment from the cyclist "if I slow down it will take me two hours to get to work", suggests to me he should be rethinking his priorities between journey time and personal safety.

 

[martint235]

The comment from the cyclist "if I slow down it will take me two hours to get to work", suggests to me he should be rethinking his priorities between journey time and personal safety.

+1. I tend to see commuting as having the primary aim of getting to work. If you end up in hospital, it doesn't really matter how long it took you to get there.

 

[benb]

I agree completely that the cycle lane is awful, and whoever designed it is putting cyclists at risk. However, not everyone knows how to tell when a cycle lane is crap, and there's frequently a significant amount of pressure on cyclists to use whatever crap "facilities" are there. So I don't think we should be too harsh on the cyclist for using the lane in first place. I think we forget sometimes that not everyone is as clued up as us (god that sounds smug, but you get my point)

I also agree that the cyclist was foolish to go up the inside like that. I would have got in primary and overtaken on the right when I could.

However, the blind spot argument doesn't seem to hold water for me.

• The lorry driver was (or should be) aware that there is a cycle lane immediately to their left
• They should also have been aware that the cyclist was coming up the left. The blind spot only appears after the cyclist has gone forward of the left mirror, so the driver should have been aware that there was a cyclist there, if they had been checking their mirrors properly.
• The driver, even if they had not seen the cyclist filtering up, should have been aware of the possibility of a filtering cyclist (given the proximity of the cycle lane) and adjusted their road positioning accordingly.

Poor cycling, going up the inside like that.
Even worse driving, and poor observation.

 

[dawesome]

The driver of the lorry failed to notice another road user who would have been in plain sight in his mirrors for ages. The lorry driver didn't have a clue what was going on around him.

 

[400bhp]

Another one back on ignore

 

[dawesome]

Thank god you don't.

You''re going on igonre for a bit, sick of your inane babble.

Telling people you're ignoring them is kind of missing the point.

 

[Mugshot]

In the lorry driver's defence, I can only speculate that the cyclist never got far enough ahead of the lorry to get out of the driver's blind spot.

I'd give the lorry driver a month in jail and ban him from driving for a year;

Well that seems fair then.

I agree completely that the cycle lane is awful, and whoever designed it is putting cyclists at risk. However, not everyone knows how to tell when a cycle lane is crap, and there's frequently a significant amount of pressure on cyclists to use whatever crap "facilities" are there. So I don't think we should be too harsh on the cyclist for using the lane in first place. I think we forget sometimes that not everyone is as clued up as us (god that sounds smug, but you get my point)

I sort of agree with this, the cycle lane is atrocious, but to use your example of the smug cyclist, I wonder how often totally unsuitable facilities such as these are used by cyclists who feel very smug and safe in their personal space whilst they race up the side of lorries rather than taking a moment to consider there suitability.

However, the blind spot argument doesn't seem to hold water for me.

• The lorry driver was (or should be) aware that there is a cycle lane immediately to their left
• They should also have been aware that the cyclist was coming up the left. The blind spot only appears after the cyclist has gone forward of the left mirror, so the driver should have been aware that there was a cyclist there, if they had been checking their mirrors properly.

The cyclist takes approximately 5 seconds to get from the back of the truck to the front, that does not mean it takes 5 seconds for the cyclist to get into his blind spot, at precisely the same time the driver has two motorcycles overtaking him and he's approaching a crossing. Maybe he could/should have been looking out for a cyclist, maybe the cyclist could/should have been looking out for himself at the same time.

The driver, even if they had not seen the cyclist filtering up, should have been aware of the possibility of a filtering cyclist (given the proximity of the cycle lane) and adjusted their road positioning accordingly.

Are you suggesting that the driver should have driven as far over to the right as possible just in case a cyclist decided to ride up the inside of him?

 

[Boris Bajic]

The driver of the lorry failed to notice another road user who would have been in plain sight in his mirrors for ages. The lorry driver didn't have a clue what was going on around him.

This sort of rhetoric may not help and may not be based on knowledge of the wider environment or the driver's view from a truck cab.

The lorry driver had just been passed on its offside by two motorcycles (or scooters). This will have taken a fair bit of his or her attention.

There is no guarantee that a cyclist passing on the nearside would even have been seen by the driver, never mind being "in plain sight in his mirrors for ages". Real life doesn't offer drivers pause, rewind or edit buttons.

The cyclist appears (by voice) to be an adult. Riding like that is something I'd expect most adults to have grown out of. We all have a duty of care towards other road users, but I think it would be a bad day for UK roads if that driver were to be prosecuted. I say that only on the limited evidence of the footage and in the belief that thecyclist at no time cleared the front of the truck in a way that would mak him visible.

The outcome was ultimately a relatively happy one. He didn't go under the wheels, which must be a good thing.

 

[gambatte]

at precisely the same time the driver has two motorcycles overtaking him and he's approaching a crossing. Maybe he could/should have been looking out for a cyclist, maybe the cyclist could/should have been looking out for himself at the same time.

Sounds like the guys a regular commuter on that stretch.
Which IMO means he should be more aware of any dangers.

 

[BSRU]

Sounds like the guys a regular commuter on that stretch.
Which IMO means he should be more aware of any dangers.

Could also mean they have become complacent, the old "familiarity breeds contempt" saying may be justified

 

[benb]

I sort of agree with this, the cycle lane is atrocious, but to use your example of the smug cyclist, I wonder how often totally unsuitable facilities such as these are used by cyclists who feel very smug and safe in their personal space whilst they race up the side of lorries rather than taking a moment to consider there suitability.

I think that's a valid point, but I don't think we should automatically criticise people for using facilities that are there. We can all see that the cycle lane is crap, but not everyone has our collective level of experience.

The cyclist takes approximately 5 seconds to get from the back of the truck to the front, that does not mean it takes 5 seconds for the cyclist to get into his blind spot, at precisely the same time the driver has two motorcycles overtaking him and he's approaching a crossing. Maybe he could/should have been looking out for a cyclist, maybe the cyclist could/should have been looking out for himself at the same time.

The cyclist absolutely should not have gone up the inside - we are all agreed on that. But it's the responsibility of every road user to be aware of the traffic around him, and the truck driver failed in that responsibility - he should have been aware of the specific cyclist, or at the very least aware of the possibility of a cyclist being there.

Are you suggesting that the driver should have driven as far over to the right as possible just in case a cyclist decided to ride up the inside of him?

When he has just been driving alongside a cycle lane, he should have borne in mind the possibility of a cyclist being there and adjusted his road positioning accordingly.

 

[gambatte]

Could also mean they have become complacent, the old "familiarity breeds contempt" saying may be justified

TBH, that was the second line of my comment, which I decided to delete, just before posting!

 

[Hector]

The cyclist.

Let this be a lesson, if you cannot successfully complete an overtake or undertake then don't do it.

Undertaking a truck on a blind right hander is just asking for trouble.

 

[gaz]

I recall my driving instructor saying to me

You may know the road but you don't know what is around the corner.

 

[Mugshot]

I think that's a valid point, but I don't think we should automatically criticise people for using facilities that are there. We can all see that the cycle lane is crap, but not everyone has our collective level of experience.

I hope I'm not automatically criticising people for using facilities which are there, what I hope I'm doing is criticising people for automatically using facilities which are there.

The cyclist absolutely should not have gone up the inside - we are all agreed on that. But it's the responsibility of every road user to be aware of the traffic around him, and the truck driver failed in that responsibility - he should have been aware of the specific cyclist, or at the very least aware of the possibility of a cyclist being there.

I have been trying this out this morning whilst driving, I have been trying to imagine myself in a situation where I had two motorcycles coming past on my right whilst I was travelling forwards towards a crossing with another vehicle infront of me, whilst at the same time being aware of a cycle lane to my left. I gave myself varying amounts of time up to 10 seconds to check my offside mirror to keep an eye on both motorcycles, to continually check forward in case the lights changed or the vehicle in front stopped and also to keep an eye on the cycle lane to my left. I was like some sort of lunatic nodding back and forth between mirrors, I should also point out I was in a van, I have no rear view mirror. I'm going to hang my head in shame because I couldn't guarantee that I would have spotted everything that was going on around me everytime I tried it, and I was really trying. Give it a go benb and we'll compare results

When he has just been driving alongside a cycle lane, he should have borne in mind the possibility of a cyclist being there and adjusted his road positioning accordingly.

But what precisely does this mean?