Who's at fault....Lorry driver, cyclist or the cycle lane designer?

[cd365]

The cyclist's fault in my opinion. To go flying up the inside of a lorry like that when you know that the cycle lane is disappearing is suicidal.

benb, have you ever driven a car? If you are having to watch for motorcyclists overtaking you on the right the last thing you will be thinking about or expecting is some loon undertaking you

 

[TonyEnjoyD]

Poor cycling, driving and layout.

Personally, like thew other posters, I would not have been in that cycle lane and given the width of the road and heavy traffic, definite primary position especially after passing the lorry which he must have given the rate it passed him before he fell.
Te design of the cycle lane is atrocious with the lane probably narrower than the bars at times, and where is suddenly veers left to a parrallel lane woiuld require fast braking to turn in causing further possible issues.

 

[benb]

I hope I'm not automatically criticising people for using facilities which are there, what I hope I'm doing is criticising people for automatically using facilities which are there.

Yes, I agree with this, but we should try and understand that not everyone is as good as us at identifying when a cycle lane is crap.

I have been trying this out this morning whilst driving, I have been trying to imagine myself in a situation where I had two motorcycles coming past on my right whilst I was travelling forwards towards a crossing with another vehicle infront of me, whilst at the same time being aware of a cycle lane to my left. I gave myself varying amounts of time up to 10 seconds to check my offside mirror to keep an eye on both motorcycles, to continually check forward in case the lights changed or the vehicle in front stopped and also to keep an eye on the cycle lane to my left. I was like some sort of lunatic nodding back and forth between mirrors, I should also point out I was in a van, I have no rear view mirror. I'm going to hang my head in shame because I couldn't guarantee that I would have spotted everything that was going on around me everytime I tried it, and I was really trying. Give it a go benb and we'll compare results

Well that's the responsibility you take when you bring a dangerous vehicle onto the public highway.

When he has just been driving alongside a cycle lane, he should have borne in mind the possibility of a cyclist being there and adjusted his road positioning accordingly.

But what precisely does this mean?

It means that in this situation, where he knew (at least I hope he knew; he certainly should have done) that he had just driven past a long section of cycle lane, he should have kept further to the right to take account of the possibility that a bicycle had come up the inside without him noticing.

 

[Mugshot]

Yes, I agree with this, but we should try and understand that not everyone is as good as us at identifying when a cycle lane is crap.

Maybe that's a responsibilty one should have when taking a bicycle onto the public highway. But's lets not keep batting this back and forth, I think we're agreed that particular path is crap

Well that's the responsibility you take when you bring a dangerous vehicle onto the public highway.

Will you try it for me, and post your honest findings?

It means that in this situation, where he knew (at least I hope he knew; he certainly should have done) that he had just driven past a long section of cycle lane, he should have kept further to the right to take account of the possibility that a bicycle had come up the inside without him noticing.

I've got to keep going with this. How far to the right? I'd have to watch again but I don't believe the truck enters the cycle lane. Ideally the cycle lane would be better, however given what we've got do you think the truck driver should be an extra foot or two to the right or treat that section as if he were performing an ideal overtake on a cyclist whether there is one there or not?

 

[evo456]

Hi just joined up the forum. I wouldn't like to conclude who was at fault here. The cycle lane is narrow - not helped by the painted double red lines, it looks fairly wet. As a road user of any vehicle, you should take into consideration the prevailing road conditions. Personally if it was me, depending on my judgement I may pulled back my speed and allowed for more reaction/braking time. What strikes me the most in this clip is, the cyclist decided to undertake when there are steel railings on his left side. Call it reading the road or whatever, but I would think the risk of getting sandwiched between the railing and a moving lorry to make it not worth trying to undertake. At least on other stretches, if he did get pinched he could fall to his left and onto the payment in 'relative' safety.

 

[Peowpeowpeowlasers]

I don't see how anyone can blame the lorry driver for not having x-ray vision.

Even if the cycle lane was 20 feet wide, it's still silly to expect a HGV to see you when you're alongside its door or barely ahead of its cab.

 

[Mugshot]

Hi just joined up the forum.

Welcome evo

 

[Mugshot]

I don't see how anyone can blame the lorry driver for not having x-ray vision.

Even if the cycle lane was 20 feet wide, it's still silly to expect a HGV to see you when you're alongside its door or barely ahead of its cab.

That's pretty scary isn't it. It's like a David Copperfield magic trick, I had to watch it twice to make sure he didn't leap out at the end.

 

[evo456]

Welcome evo

Thanks

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

that doesn't look like a good lane in the early part

and with benefit of perfect riding hindsight and not wanting to be accused of victim blaming

how far in front of the lorry were they?

why didn't they use the off road lane thats shown at 1:28 ?

undertaking - called that for one reason IMHO

Because there is no requirement to?

 

[Hip Priest]

It's hard to tell who is to blame, but I'm relieved the cyclist came away with his life. Personally I'd never have undertaken the lorry in that situaiton. The people who designed that cycle lane want shooting. About 6 inches wide and strewn with grids and debris.

 

[subaqua]

Because there is no requirement to?

i am fully aware that there is no requirement to. but if you don't use it then ride primary so this sort of thing doesn't happen. its what i do along ruckholt road past Eton Manor

I wondered how long it would take for a in plain view of the mirrors comment . 4 seconds the bike is alongside the lory, do people check mirrors every 4 seconds ? if they do then they are not looking forwards that often .

you can argue that the cyclist was visible behind the lorry for a few seconds but that would take a long stare in the mirror to see. not whats taught when driving.

but i will probably get accused of victim blaming here when the cyclist is clearly a numpty for going up the inside when its not a safe place to be.

better to be 2 minutes late than never arrive at all.

 

[gaz]

I don't see how anyone can blame the lorry driver for not having x-ray vision.

Even if the cycle lane was 20 feet wide, it's still silly to expect a HGV to see you when you're alongside its door or barely ahead of its cab.

Technically the blind spot on that lorry is increased because the cab is angled slightly for the start of a turn.

 

[mustang1]

Undertaking, not a good idea. But that's not where the incident took place.
I've only watched the video once (I got side tracked with the post videos, there's a clip of a shark attack ), but seems to be more the lorry driver's fault if passing too close, and I cant tell quite how close because bike cameras have a bit of fish-eye to them so distorts distances.
It doesn't matter what state the bike lane was in nor does it matter if the cyclist took the middle of the lane after the bike lane ended... it does look like the truck driver got too close, that's the truck driver to blame.

 

[Peowpeowpeowlasers]

Undertaking, not a good idea. But that's not where the incident took place.
I've only watched the video once (I got side tracked with the post videos, there's a clip of a shark attack ), but seems to be more the lorry driver's fault if passing too close, and I cant tell quite how close because bike cameras have a bit of fish-eye to them so distorts distances.
It doesn't matter what state the bike lane was in nor does it matter if the cyclist took the middle of the lane after the bike lane ended... it does look like the truck driver got too close, that's the truck driver to blame.

To blame for passing too closely to a cyclist whose presence he was completely unaware of?