gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
We don't know that for sure.
Who's at fault....Lorry driver, cyclist or the cycle lane designer?
- Thread starter semislickstick
- Start date
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subaqua
What’s the point
- Location
- Leytonstone
Undertaking, not a good idea. But that's not where the incident took place.
I've only watched the video once (I got side tracked with the post videos, there's a clip of a shark attack), but seems to be more the lorry driver's fault if passing too close, and I cant tell quite how close because bike cameras have a bit of fish-eye to them so distorts distances.
It doesn't matter what state the bike lane was in nor does it matter if the cyclist took the middle of the lane after the bike lane ended... it does look like the truck driver got too close, that's the truck driver to blame.
We don't know if he got ahead of the wagon.
What we do know is that by the time the cycle lane vanished, he hadn't passed the wagon.
Undertake/overtake if you haven't got time/space to do it safely, don't do it.
400bhp
Guru
It's not rocket science is it.
Maybe that's a responsibilty one should have when taking a bicycle onto the public highway. But's lets not keep batting this back and forth, I think we're agreed that particular path is crap
Will you try it for me, and post your honest findings?
I've got to keep going with this. How far to the right? I'd have to watch again but I don't believe the truck enters the cycle lane. Ideally the cycle lane would be better, however given what we've got do you think the truck driver should be an extra foot or two to the right or treat that section as if he were performing an ideal overtake on a cyclist whether there is one there or not?
I had a go today, and it's not easy, keeping observation in all mirrors and ahead. I think you only need to be extra vigilant about your left mirror when there is a cycle lane there, or having just cleared one, or when turning or pulling left. So yes, it's hard to keep proper observation, but that's what we expect when you drive on the roads.
The lorry had been travelling fairly slowly, alongside a cycle lane, so I think the driver should have considered the strong possibility that a bicycle was in that position, regardless of whether he actually saw the bicycle. I personally think that he should have been aware of the bicycle's presence and should have been more vigilant about checking his left mirrors, given the cycle lane.
IMO, the lorry driver should have been further to the right, just in case there was a cycle there. I can't answer how much without seeing the road layout, but enough not to clip the cyclist.
Peowpeowpeowlasers
Well-Known Member
Boris Bajic
Guest
I've enjoyed this debate. It's been largely good humoured and the views given have been presented in a thoughtful way.
I see much more convergence than divergence in the opimnions of benb and Mugshot.
However, I find something in the nuance of the above (edited) quote quite interesting. It may be just how I choose to read it - and I apologise if I've fallen into that trap:
Mugshot had invited benb to have a go at covering a variety of mirrors while in the situation of the lorry driver. I've quoted benb's response above. He 'had a go today' and found that it wasn't easy.
This seems slightly to suggest that it is not how benb (and many others) normally drive. Many things we do when driving are not easy. I've recently taught my eldest to drive and had forgotten quite how hard and (sometimes) counterintuitive many of the actions are.
But if someone told me to check my mirror and blindspots before changing lane and I came back and said "I had a go and it's not easy", I might give the impression that I do not normally do it.
I'm absolutely not having a go at benb here. I think he is one of the more switched-on contributors here despite our disagreement on some things.
Nonetheless, the language I quote above seems pregnant with the possibility (likelihood?) that this is a mode of urban driving that is outside the norm for the author.
Do I have a smidgin of a point there?
Well, I'm not a lorry driver and don't have a long vehicle. I certainly do keep a closer eye on the left mirror when in the vicinity of cycle lanes, but the point of my experiment above was to imagine I was in a lorry, with the additional observational difficulties that brings.
What about them? Are you saying that someone overtaking on the right removes your duty to be observant on the left?
I'm not sure how you can come to the definite conclusion that the driver was utterly blameless.
DRHysted
Guru
- Location
- New Forest
I have just spent some time watching that a few times. The truck doesn't have a kerb mirror, and it appears that there is no blind spot mirror either. So unless the driver was looking in his mirror at the precise moment he was in view (about 1 second, and I doubt it as he was probably looking at the overtaking traffic), or unless the cyclist had managed to get far enougth in front to be in view (aim for about 8 feet). Then the driver never knew that a bike was there.
Does that put him at fault, or the cyclist who failed to safely complete an overtake manouvere?
Personally I'd blame the cyclist, it was a dangerous move, the highway code does state (I can't recall the exact wording) you should give way to avoid an accident.
Personally I think it's best to arrive late, rather than never.
Does that put him at fault, or the cyclist who failed to safely complete an overtake manouvere?
Personally I'd blame the cyclist, it was a dangerous move, the highway code does state (I can't recall the exact wording) you should give way to avoid an accident.
Personally I think it's best to arrive late, rather than never.
Boris Bajic
Guest
What are we saying here?
That covering all our mirrors while observing the road ahead is easy, but that doing so while imagining one is in a raised cab at the front of a longer vehicle is difficult?
Believe me, there are no extra observational difficulties to driving a truck in that situation that can helpfully be imagined to any productive end. In many ways a truck driver enjoys advantages a car driver lacks. He/she can often reverse onto a loading bay and get it right to within a inch, despite the absence of a central mirror; this because the door mirrors are pretty wonderful. I used to watch the wheel nuts coming into view in the door-top mirror and use them to judge my reversing. A car driver has far fewer visible clues as to the position and location of the road wheels.
The vehicle is longer. But I'm not sure how imagining a longer vehicle makes peprception of difficulty or (as you imply) difficulty itself any more likely.
The view is different, but I'm not sure how sitting in a car and imagining how different the view might be makes it in any way difficult or suggests any increased difficulty in the imagined scenario.
Lorry drivers do face some difficulty with blindspots (as do almost all drivers). They have larger mirrors (often dual-aspest) and additional mirrors to mitigate in this area. I'm really not sure how (with the best imagination in the world) you might helpfully drive a car whilst imagining you were in a lorry and find the experiment conclusive of anything other than the enormous fun we had as children pretending a shopping trolley was a pantechnicon.
I fear your earlier observation is now rather more exposed than it was before being adorned with this eccentric explanation.
I'm just off on my bicycle to re-create the re-entry of Apollo 13 in an experiment. On a bicycle it is easy and I do it as a matter of course. Imagining I'm doing it in Apollo 13 is going to be difficult. Wish me luck!
And they have trouble with being drunk, like the lorry driver that killed Catriona Patel, or they have trouble with being unable to see and falsifying their tacho like the lorry driver who killed Eilidh Cairns, or they have trouble with indicating or encroaching the asl, like the lorry driver who killed Daniel Cox.
lukesdad
Guest
Quite satisfying tho' as another nobber dissapears from view
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