Why are cargo bikes so expensive?

[silva]

Can I take it you've never cycled on a cargo cycle whilst using a trailer?
If you had you'd realise that a lot more can be moved in the one go, than just on the cargo cycle.
And, if you'd done your homework before posting, you'd have realised that some of the newer versions of cycle quads have pedal by wire. You pedal to generate a current that lets the battery that actually provides the power to the wheels. The pedals/chainring combination do not provide any actual power to the wheels.
The Velove Armadillo being the last commercially available one where the rider was able to move the cycle under their own steam. With the battery supplying extra power for when loaded.

If you're only now becoming aware of longer vehicles having to go wide into a turn(Opposite lane whilst indicating they'll be going the other way), I'm surprised you've lasted this long.

And it's down to the last major change in the regulations covering electric assist on pedal cycles. For the first time Quadricycles(four wheels) were allowed electric assist. Which allowed some of the bigger delivery firms to experiment with using them.

A lot more can be moved... I didn't talk about transported load.

"Pedal generate a current that lets the battery that actually..." is hard to read/interprete
You mean pushing pedals "loads, "charges" the battery?
Then what? Makes what different than what I said?

If you're only now... I didn't talk about myself, I talked about what I saw happening to others, that as proved weren't aware, or, didn't have the time, chance, to see the danger, resulting in their trailer bumping wild over elevated road elements put there by state for Safety Reasons. Or noticing too late that they are too long to make the For Safety speed limiting corners, resulting in accidents with cargo bikes, after which the corners are removed, or, obstructions ment to force slowdown by zigzag, removed.
Early last year I saw such an accident, the cargo bike got stuck as in "jammed", due to those obstructions, then a car driver that had anticipated it would have passed, wrecked its rear wheel, quite symbolic for the contradictions in the road "infrastructure".

Same story when they turn, as you say yourself, they have to go to the other direction first in order to turn "wide", but, there they get in the way of those coming from the other direction, often surprising these. And if they have to emergency stop there, the result is a jam with further hits.

Those motorized big things shouldn't be on human powered ment for bicycles lanes.
Just like those electric steps shouldn't be on what is reserved for walkers. It's crazy to see them sheering along peoples doors, around corners with no view, stop in a second, reach again speed in a sec, same for those minivan e-cargo"bikes", all surprising real cyclists.

It's also contradictionary to the separation doctrine that state transformed roads to during the past decades. Gasoline motors weren't allowed on bicycle sections, electric motors are, and since Li-Ion, the difference became zero, and dangerous since the former make alot noise and the latter you don't hear, and pedals/cranks serving more to cheat a legal classification as a bicycle and thus allowed to ride on the reserved for sections, than to power it forward.

There is not any traffic safety related reason for an electric motorized whatever to be treated relaxter than a combustion motorized whatever, rather the contrary, the electric is silent and you don't hear their presence if they don't make other noise.

See, what I said is what I've seen in city I daily visit, not by... homework?

 

[classic33]

A lot more can be moved... I didn't talk about transported load.

"Pedal generate a current that lets the battery that actually..." is hard to read/interprete
You mean pushing pedals "loads, "charges" the battery?
Then what? Makes what different than what I said?

If you're only now... I didn't talk about myself, I talked about what I saw happening to others, that as proved weren't aware, or, didn't have the time, chance, to see the danger, resulting in their trailer bumping wild over elevated road elements put there by state for Safety Reasons. Or noticing too late that they are too long to make the For Safety speed limiting corners, resulting in accidents with cargo bikes, after which the corners are removed, or, obstructions ment to force slowdown by zigzag, removed.
Early last year I saw such an accident, the cargo bike got stuck as in "jammed", due to those obstructions, then a car driver that had anticipated it would have passed, wrecked its rear wheel, quite symbolic for the contradictions in the road "infrastructure".

Same story when they turn, as you say yourself, they have to go to the other direction first in order to turn "wide", but, there they get in the way of those coming from the other direction, often surprising these. And if they have to emergency stop there, the result is a jam with further hits.

Those motorized big things shouldn't be on human powered ment for bicycles lanes.
Just like those electric steps shouldn't be on what is reserved for walkers. It's crazy to see them sheering along peoples doors, around corners with no view, stop in a second, reach again speed in a sec, same for those minivan e-cargo"bikes", all surprising real cyclists.

It's also contradictionary to the separation doctrine that state transformed roads to during the past decades. Gasoline motors weren't allowed on bicycle sections, electric motors are, and since Li-Ion, the difference became zero, and dangerous since the former make alot noise and the latter you don't hear, and pedals/cranks serving more to cheat a legal classification as a bicycle and thus allowed to ride on the reserved for sections, than to power it forward.

There is not any traffic safety related reason for an electric motorized whatever to be treated relaxter than a combustion motorized whatever, rather the contrary, the electric is silent and you don't hear their presence if they don't make other noise.

See, what I said is what I've seen in city I daily visit, not by... homework?

You see nothing but unloaded cargo bikes pulling empty trailers then?

I still suggest you do your homework before replying. Half of what you're commenting on holds true of electric bikes, not just electric cargo cycles.

I answered from the point of view of someone who has used a cargo quad(the sort you can't understand being allowed on the roads) but it's pedal power only. Along with two nine foot trailers in tow. Not as someone who merely see's such vehicles.
The quad stands out enough, a single trailer in tow makes it even more noticeable. Loaded, it gets even more notice when on the move.

 

[Andy in Germany]

These suffer from the issues mentioned above, and the same as I mentioned earlier: they aren't built for the sort of use a utility bike gets: they're also too small for a lot of things: I've transported all kinds of items on my Bakfiets, including large (heavy) boxes, planks, and bags of fertiliser. Even if you could fit that in a trailer, you'd destroy it fairly quickly; a heavy-duty trailer costs as much as a cargo bike.

I have noticed the uptake on cargo bikes increased now the more powerful motors are mainstream, and people can have the advantage of a motor without having to fit or maintain them themselves.

@Arrowfoot: the above comes over as if I'm dismissing the use of panniers, which I'm not, apologies. I use panniers regularly for shopping, and they are useful for smaller items or a couple of mildly bulky heavier things, especially if the shop is further away. The work bikes come in when items are just too big and/or heavy to move with panniers.

 

[Andy in Germany]

It's also contradictionary to the separation doctrine that state transformed roads to during the past decades. Gasoline motors weren't allowed on bicycle sections, electric motors are, and since Li-Ion, the difference became zero, and dangerous since the former make alot noise and the latter you don't hear, and pedals/cranks serving more to cheat a legal classification as a bicycle and thus allowed to ride on the reserved for sections, than to power it forward.

No it isn't, because most (legal) E-Bikes assist you when pedalling; they don't provide all the power like a typical IC moped would. They also cut out at a fairly chilled 25km/h which slower than I'm used to riding, and their brakes have massively improved since I bought my work bike.

In other words, I can (and often do) find myself riding faster under my own power than an ebike with a motor, without their disc brakes, and remarkably I've managed not to harm any fellow citizens in the last 17 years of using the thing.

This is at least the legal situation illegal motorised bikes are a menace, but so are illegal e-scooters and uninsured cars.

 

[silva]

You see nothing but unloaded cargo bikes pulling empty trailers then?

I still suggest you do your homework before replying. Half of what you're commenting on holds true of electric bikes, not just electric cargo cycles.

I answered from the point of view of someone who has used a cargo quad(the sort you can't understand being allowed on the roads) but it's pedal power only. Along with two nine foot trailers in tow. Not as someone who merely see's such vehicles.
The quad stands out enough, a single trailer in tow makes it even more noticeable. Loaded, it gets even more notice when on the move.

You "reacted" as if I talked about transported load.
I told you I didn't talk about transported load.
And here you "react" as if I said no load.
What I DID say, was a summary of what I saw happening, with cargo bikes, and the causes of it.
My conclusion: you don't react to what I say.
Instead, you discuss with yourself.
What you do is explained here:
https://psychologyfanatic.com/straw-man-a-logical-fallacy/
and your "do your homework" here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

[silva]

No it isn't, because most (legal) E-Bikes assist you when pedalling; they don't provide all the power like a typical IC moped would. They also cut out at a fairly chilled 25km/h which slower than I'm used to riding, and their brakes have massively improved since I bought my work bike.

In other words, I can (and often do) find myself riding faster under my own power than an ebike with a motor, without their disc brakes, and remarkably I've managed not to harm any fellow citizens in the last 17 years of using the thing.

This is at least the legal situation illegal motorised bikes are a menace, but so are illegal e-scooters and uninsured cars.

Yes it is, they can provide all the power, if the cyclist wants.
Just like on an internal combustion motor bike.
It's named "assistence" but if one wants 100% assistence, it is.
All they "have to do" then, is not resisting the pedals, which requires in all cases except fixed gear, the effort to compress the springs in the freewheel, which a hamster is already able to.

At work there is a bud that lives 3 km further from work than me, same direction.
He decided to do something about his condition by using bicycle instead of car, and decided to buy an electric motor bicycle as to start the longer distance not that hard.
After alike 4 months, on a friday he arrived with a real bicycle. Explaining that the electric bike made it too easy and he didn't improve like he wanted.
In the summer, one can spot an E-bike from halve a mile.
No binocular needed - they wear a vest just like riders on internal combustion engine bikes do.
Between other cyclists they're like black on white or white on black - it's harder to miss them than to spot them, haha.
Also in cycle tourist groups, where the less/not sportive ladies can now accompany their men on their sunny sunday tours. All in T-shirts, except for those ladies, because... they don't warm themselves up, their electric motors do the job for them.

 

[classic33]

You "reacted" as if I talked about transported load.
I told you I didn't talk about transported load.
And here you "react" as if I said no load.
What I DID say, was a summary of what I saw happening, with cargo bikes, and the causes of it.
My conclusion: you don't react to what I say.
Instead, you discuss with yourself.
What you do is explained here:
https://psychologyfanatic.com/straw-man-a-logical-fallacy/
and your "do your homework" here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

No, you started ranting about how "bendy buses" have to take it carefully through corners. I explained that you'll see large/long vehicles swinging wide to take corners. You complained it caused accidents when those behind them on the road went into the back of them, because they either didn't expect it or expected the "offending vehicle" to be further on. That to me is poor judgement on behalf of those behind, not the driver of the vehicle in front.
You have somehow equated HGV/LGV's to cargo bikes, which you don't like. You clearly don't like the larger cargo cycles, typically four wheels and therefore not a bicycle.

I explained my position as a rider of such a quadricycle, who has towed trailers on the road. The view of someone who uses one, not simply sees one, on the road. This brought into the mix that a quad can carry more than a bicycle. Your argument now is not about them being loaded, nor is it about them being unloaded. You seek to argue for the simple sake of arguing over what you feel is right.
Tell me this, you've said on here that you use(d) a trailer. Is/was it as poorly loaded, and a danger to every other road user as your avatar picture?
That lad is a bigger danger to other road users than a cargo bike, trike or quad. With or without a trailer.

I'd suggest you come up with a thread title, so that cargo bikes/trikes/quads, and their rights to be on the roads can be discussed without hijacking another thread.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Yes it is, they can provide all the power, if the cyclist wants.
Just like on an internal combustion motor bike.
It's named "assistence" but if one wants 100% assistence, it is.
All they "have to do" then, is not resisting the pedals, which requires in all cases except fixed gear, the effort to compress the springs in the freewheel, which a hamster is already able to.

Perhaps your laws are different from ours. Here it's assistance only, up to 25km/h; once they go over that the motor acts as a brake. Illegal bikes are another matter of course.

 

[classic33]

@Moderators, is it possible to get the posts from number 28 onwards, excluding #30 by @Fergs, placed into their own thread about whether or not electric assist and electric should be allowed on the roads.

They are legal, in both classes, in most EU countries as their regulations cover Pedal Assisted Electric Cycles.
The UK has Electric Assisted Pedal Cycles, and doesn't recognise the second class as a pedal cycle under the regulations.

 

[dicko]

My Gas service engineer has one. It was given to him free by Cycle Derby to use during Covid days (he still uses it). He calls to service my boiler on it and we often bump into each other as I cycle around Derby.
https://www.cyclederby.co.uk/pages/e-cargo-bikes