Why do people get such strong feelings over electric cars and solar panels etc.

[cougie uk]

That's not really a valid argument though, is it? They're significantly more expensive than IC vehicles while they depreciate rapidly so represent worse value for those who purchase them new.

Mine wasn't. And they're even cheaper now.

 

[gbb]

Admittedly the Torygraph, but this article makes some good points about slowing uptake of EVs..

Part of that narrative is I suspect the west has begun to realise, they simply won't be able to compete against China.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

herculean tasks.

Love the sarcasm 😂

 

[wafter]

Part of that narrative is I suspect the west has begun to realise, they simply won't be able to compete against China.

Indeed - as the article alludes to, I think it's a two-front situation. On the one hand governments are realising / admitting that EVs aren't viable on a mass scale; on the other that the market share of whatever EVs are being used is looking increasingly likely to be dominated by the Chinese to the cost of domestic manufacturers in a time where conceptually many are pulling away from globalisation.

Without some form of artificial / tertiary control (like import taxes) to disincentivise the Chinese offerings it seems reasonable to assume that just like most other electric / electronic goods they'll come to dominate this market in time. That said the country's behaviour as well as their general alignment with an increasingly isolated Russia appears to be having an effect on their reputation and may lead to repercussions in the form of sanctions etc. the anti-China rhetoric has been slowly growing in the west for a while already..

There are also a lot of videos on youtube of Chinese EVs on fire and I think a lot of Chinese stuff has a rightful rep for shonky quality; I guess if that translates into incidents over here that could also damage their rep. I believe sales of BYD vehicles is due to exceed that of Teslas in the UK this year, although I've never to my knowledge seen a BYD on the road; while Teslas are common as muck round here.

Another point that might also affect thier popularity is the cost of fuelling them - with the hike in electricity costs in past years they're nowhere near as cheap to run in terms of direct costs per mile as they once were; although still remain a bit better than equivalent petrol vehicles. Throw in taxation from 2025, disproportionately rising insurance costs and greater depreciation and it seems that cost will become less of a driving factor to go electric.

Again, while small-scale remember what happened with LPG cars? Tax breaks on fuel made them cheaper to run, people jumped on the bandwagon and had their vehicles converted at their cost.. cost of fuel rose, availability fell and now barely anyone even remembers them. I think similar will happen with electric.. although maybe with greater political backlash given the costs involved.

 

[Alex321]

Indeed - as the article alludes to, I think it's a two-front situation. On the one hand governments are realising / admitting that EVs aren't viable on a mass scale; on the other that the market share of whatever EVs are being used is looking increasingly likely to be dominated by the Chinese to the cost of domestic manufacturers in a time where conceptually many are pulling away from globalisation.

I haven't seen any sign whatsoever of any government "realising" that non-fact.

It seems to be your opinion thaht they aren't viable on a mass scale, but only a fairly small number share your view.

Again, while small-scale remember what happened with LPG cars? Tax breaks on fuel made them cheaper to run, people jumped on the bandwagon and had their vehicles converted at their cost.. cost of fuel rose, availability fell and now barely anyone even remembers them. I think similar will happen with electric.. although maybe with greater political backlash given the costs involved.

I don't think there is the remotest chance of that happening with electric.

 

[wafter]

I haven't seen any sign whatsoever of any government "realising" that non-fact.

It seems to be your opinion thaht they aren't viable on a mass scale, but only a fairly small number share your view.

I don't think there is the remotest chance of that happening with electric.

One could argue that the pushing back of the new IC car sales ban by five years is an acknowledgement that EVs aren't as viable as initially suggested.

In short / direct terms at least I have no dog in this fight as it'll be a long time before any EVs fall to the price that I'd be happy to spend on a utility vehicle, and I suspect even longer (if ever) before such accessible offerings represent a preferable alternative to something with an IC powertrain.

In the meantime I'm happy to watch the situation from the sidelines; maybe I'll be proven correct, maybe not. Time will tell

 

[Alex321]

One could argue that the pushing back of the new IC car sales ban by five years is an acknowledgement that EVs aren't as viable as initially suggested.

One could argue that if one was determined that they aren't viable.

But I think it is mainly just bringing it in line with most other governments, so that car manufacturers will not be still producing IC cars for some markets but not others.

Possibly also because it may take longer than initially thought tob get the full infrastructure in place, but if they really thought EVs wouldn't be viable for the masses, then they would not just be delaying it by 5 years.

 

[wafter]

One could argue that if one was determined that they aren't viable.

But I think it is mainly just bringing it in line with most other governments, so that car manufacturers will not be still producing IC cars for some markets but not others.

Possibly also because it may take longer than initially thought tob get the full infrastructure in place, but if they really thought EVs wouldn't be viable for the masses, then they would not just be delaying it by 5 years.

Indeed; and from the available evidence I don't believe that they are viable in their current form.

Of course you might be correct that the 5 year delay might simply be due to limitations in infrastructure provision. However, I'm sure you can also appreciate that no government would flat-out admit that something they've instigated turned out to be unworkable and would likely just kick the can down the road...

Again, time will tell

 

[cougie uk]

One could argue that the pushing back of the new IC car sales ban by five years is an acknowledgement that EVs aren't as viable as initially suggested.

In short / direct terms at least I have no dog in this fight as it'll be a long time before any EVs fall to the price that I'd be happy to spend on a utility vehicle, and I suspect even longer (if ever) before such accessible offerings represent a preferable alternative to something with an IC powertrain.

In the meantime I'm happy to watch the situation from the sidelines; maybe I'll be proven correct, maybe not. Time will tell

But you do have a dog. You're not trying the electric car as you have an ice already.

If you had an EV you'd be surprised at how easy they are to live with.

 

[the snail]

...

Of course you might be correct that the 5 year delay might simply be due to limitations in infrastructure provision.

It was nothing to do with infrastructure, it was a response by a desperate government to unexpectedly not losing a byelection in Uxbridge apparently on an anti-ULEZ campaign, hence doubling down on anti-environmental policies. Bear in mind that manufacturers are still required to sell a certain % of EVs. Ultimately, the way technology and global markets are going, the 2035 cut-off will be pretty irrelevant by then anyway.

 

[wafter]

But you do have a dog. You're not trying the electric car as you have an ice already.

If you had an EV you'd be surprised at how easy they are to live with.

I'm not buying a car at all as what I have currently does the job. Were I replacing it I doubt I'd go electric as anything currently on the market would be outside my budget for a beater, while for the money I'd have to pay for an EV there are IC cars I'd rather have..

Ease of "living with it" isn't really something I'd considered as my reservations are typically rooted elsewhere. However, now you mention it I'd be interested to hear your suggestions for a charging regime considering I live on a busy A-road with no parking on-or-off-street at the house, and typically park in a variety of public / on-street locations away from the property...

It was nothing to do with infrastructure, it was a response by a desperate government to unexpectedly not losing a byelection in Uxbridge apparently on an anti-ULEZ campaign, hence doubling down on anti-environmental policies. Bear in mind that manufacturers are still required to sell a certain % of EVs. Ultimately, the way technology and global markets are going, the 2035 cut-off will be pretty irrelevant by then anyway.

Given the state of things that wouldn't surprise me. As for the relevance of the cutoff, I guess we'll have to wait and see

 

[cougie uk]

I'm not buying a car at all as what I have currently does the job. Were I replacing it I doubt I'd go electric as anything currently on the market would be outside my budget for a beater, while for the money I'd have to pay for an EV there are IC cars I'd rather have..

Ease of "living with it" isn't really something I'd considered as my reservations are typically rooted elsewhere. However, now you mention it I'd be interested to hear your suggestions for a charging regime considering I live on a busy A-road with no parking on-or-off-street at the house, and typically park in a variety of public / on-street locations away from the property...


Given the state of things that wouldn't surprise me. As for the relevance of the cutoff, I guess we'll have to wait and see

I'd there's no place to charge at home you'll have to charge at your destination. It'll cost you more though sadly.

The cut off for combustion cars will happen. The vauxhall plant at Ellesmere Port has made it's last ICE car and can only make EVs from now on.

Production line changes cost millions and take years to plan in so it's not something you do just on the whim of a Government minister.

 

[Tenkaykev]

The rollout of Sainsbury's own brand SuperCharger network will make it easier to charge and shop. I noticed in one video that I was watching that some charging stations have illuminated signs on the approach displaying the price per kWh, much like petrol stations do with petrol / diesel prices.

 

[FishFright]

God help some people if that had to some something difficult to save future generations.

 

[wafter]

I'd there's no place to charge at home you'll have to charge at your destination. It'll cost you more though sadly.

The cut off for combustion cars will happen. The vauxhall plant at Ellesmere Port has made it's last ICE car and can only make EVs from now on.

Production line changes cost millions and take years to plan in so it's not something you do just on the whim of a Government minister.

95% of the time my destination is also a public street that's conspicuously devoid of any charging facilities. Come to think of it, I can't think of a single charging station anywhere local to me.

Out of interest, what sort of price per kWh do these stations typically charge?