Why do people get such strong feelings over electric cars and solar panels etc.

[Gillstay]

I have friends who get very angry about electric cars not being any good, and solar power not being the way forward.

They sneer at the eco tyres on my car, but are quiet amazed when they are not more expensive than normal tyres.

Some don't even tolerate electric bikes.

Yet they have electric coffee grinders rather than manual, wrist watches and chainsaws, hedgecutters, an drills, an washing machines...... with no problem.

What do we think is going on ?

 

[Drago]

I have friends who get very angry about electric cars not being any good,

And not one of them owns one and has any personal experience, preferring to parrot the Daily Mail and display their ignorance like a peacock looking for a bunk up.

 

[tyred]

People don't like change I think.

Certain people try to stir things up and spread false information too, probably backed by oil companies, etc.

I don't have an electric car, it would be financially suicidal for me to buy one, but I have nothing against them. If I was in the market for a new car, I'd certainly look into them in more detail.

 

[Drago]

We take delivery of our 4th next Tuesday

I still have a petrol summer toy though.

 

[biggs682]

I think a lot of it is the fear of change and the cost of change

But i think Solar panels are good as long as they can be recycled in years to come , the ones we had fitted years ago have saved us quite a lot of money on our electric bills

 

[wafter]

Personally as someone with some grounding in engineering my problem with electric vehicles is their merciless up-selling by the establishment as some kind of binary environmental savour when they still have many flaws that undermine their implied greener-than-green credentials, as well as showing them to be non-viable for mass-market adoption in their current form and arguably unsustainable in the long run.

Boiled right down I think it's a thinly-veiled, cynical attempt to drive flagging economic growth off the back of an environmental argument; when in reality it's likely of net-detriment to the cause it claims to be supporting.

On top of that there's the hypocrisy and virtue signalling involved - those with £70k to drop on a new Tesla are saving the world by the establishment yardstick, while those of us running old, cheap, high-mileage IC vehicles become the planet-destroying villain... when there's a legit argument for the opposite being the case.

I also think there's a darker element to draw people into the perpetual, debt-fuelled, short-term consumptive cycle. With current battery lifespans typical EVs will become financially non-viable in maybe 5-10yrs as the cost of a replacement battery will exceed the market value of the car.. which will screw people like myself who run an old shed on a shoestring. So, what's the alternative when IC cars have been phased out / massively de-incentivised with hiked running costs in terms of fuel / tax / insurance and EV's are dead before they're 10 years old? Loads of debt-fuelled purchasing of new / nearly-new, and very expensive EVs perhaps, or shared vehicle initiatives - neither of which are appealing or beneficial to those of us who earn very little, IMO.

As I'd hope most would acknowledge from my sincere desire to ride as much as possible and leave the car at home unless absolutely necessary I'm all over the green / sustainable agenda.. but I don't think current EVs have a legitimate place in this arena (or if they do it's massively overplayed), while it seems that without significant improvements in battery tech and infrastructure EVs will be dead in a decade or two - consigned to the scrapheap of environmentally-justified, government-incentivised private transport modes along with LPG and Diesel..

 

[CXRAndy]

I have friends who get very angry about electric cars not being any good, and solar power not being the way forward.

They sneer at the eco tyres on my car, but are quiet amazed when they are not more expensive than normal tyres.

Some don't even tolerate electric bikes.

Yet they have electric coffee grinders rather than manual, wrist watches and chainsaws, hedgecutters, an drills, an washing machines...... with no problem.

What do we think is going on ?

Uneducated envy

 

[Cycleops]

This woman obviously does have strong feelings over using her electric car but not over using someone else's vacant charger. Her sense of entitlement is staggering. The exchange is Hilarious.

View: https://youtu.be/-WaGwzULfFo?si=n6NLiSJjyQZY82Ig

 

[simongt]

People don't like change I think.

People only like 'selective' change. If it boosts their ego / perceived standing in life, they're all for it. Otherwise, they're dyed in the wool traditionalists.

 

[gbb]

For me, its a scepticism to believe that battery technology will move on enough to make EVs a viable alternative for all people.
Add to that...
Is there any movement towards successful and mass recycling of batteries ? What's happening to the ones that are currently taken out of cars.?
How are the masses going to charge them ?

I have no hatred toward them, mildly one considered and did the homework to owning one...but realistically a second hand Leaf for commuting, say £6k, would need charging every s8ng.e day for a 30 mile journey because they would realistically only have around a 50 mile range last in them.
After another two years ? What's the range going to be ? Would I spend £6k to have a worthless car in two or three years ?

I look in the carpark at the (tbf) growing number of EVs on charge (company cars for the the very largest part) and wonder how bloody frustrating it's going to be to put them on charge in the pouring rain, snow and bad weather .

I don't care what the propulsion method is, ICE, EV, hybrid, hydrogen, snail poo or ground down bricks...it's got to be user friendly to the masses if
it wants to succeed. And I don't think it is, or likely will be.

For some, it's marvelous, you have a drive, solar panels, probably £50k or more for a good one or more likely a company car,, fair play, good on you, genuinely. But it doesn't reflect the masses expectations or needs.

 

[Drago]

Personally as someone with some grounding in engineering my problem with electric vehicles is their merciless up-selling by the establishment as some kind of binary environmental savour when they still have many flaws that undermine their implied greener-than-green credentials, as well as showing them to be non-viable for mass-market adoption in their current form and arguably unsustainable in the long run.

Boiled right down I think it's a thinly-veiled, cynical attempt to drive flagging economic growth off the back of an environmental argument; when in reality it's likely of net-detriment to the cause it claims to be supporting.

On top of that there's the hypocrisy and virtue signalling involved - those with £70k to drop on a new Tesla are saving the world by the establishment yardstick, while those of us running old, cheap, high-mileage IC vehicles become the planet-destroying villain... when there's a legit argument for the opposite being the case.

I also think there's a darker element to draw people into the perpetual, debt-fuelled, short-term consumptive cycle. With current battery lifespans typical EVs will become financially non-viable in maybe 5-10yrs as the cost of a replacement battery will exceed the market value of the car.. which will screw people like myself who run an old shed on a shoestring. So, what's the alternative when IC cars have been phased out / massively de-incentivised with hiked running costs in terms of fuel / tax / insurance and EV's are dead before they're 10 years old? Loads of debt-fuelled purchasing of new / nearly-new, and very expensive EVs perhaps, or shared vehicle initiatives - neither of which are appealing or beneficial to those of us who earn very little, IMO.

As I'd hope most would acknowledge from my sincere desire to ride as much as possible and leave the car at home unless absolutely necessary I'm all over the green / sustainable agenda.. but I don't think current EVs have a legitimate place in this arena (or if they do it's massively overplayed), while it seems that without significant improvements in battery tech and infrastructure EVs will be dead in a decade or two - consigned to the scrapheap of environmentally-justified, government-incentivised private transport modes along with LPG and Diesel..

Largely in agreement. I like e-cars, but do struggle to believe the environmental credentials. A moderate decrease in lifetime CO2 pollution in exchange for a massive increase in chemical pollution and groundwater depletion does not seem a very equitable exchange.

I like them. Hell, I love them, but I'm not blind to any of this. I'm not an evangelist.

And you're right about Tesla drivers. Even among us lot they're regarded as a bunch of smug twits. They are to ecars what Momentum are to politics.

Badly made, badly finished, massively overpriced...the only thing I'll grudgingly concede is Tesla have really pushed the tech, particularly the motor and control technology. Sadly even the few sane buyers are putting cash in the pocket of a weirdo.

As a related aside, a friend of mine has moved himself and wife from his S and her Y into Audi etrons of some type. He says they just feel more car like to drive.

 

[Slick]

I honestly don't know anyone who gets worked up about solar panels, apart from the poor family whose house burnt to the ground after some fault developed. The chat amongst my circle of friends regarding EV's is, can they get them to work for them, which is currently mostly know for one reason or another.

 

[cougie uk]

I think it's partly anger at change and things getting away from them.

They know petrol cars. They can't grasp electric ones.
Solar panels conjuring electricity from the sky must be skin to magic.

Tbh if I didn't do my research I'd have thought electric cars wouldn't work either. My Big Trak wasn't very good and that was electric.

 

[Reynard]

I'm definitely with @wafter and @gbb on this one. I think if you've got an engineering background, some of the flaws become that much more obvious. Heck, we were making the SAME arguments about EV as first year engineering undergrads back in 1994.

And then there's the issue of infrastructure. It's going to take massive investment to install the chargers needed to make the current type of EV truly viable. And with Government funding so hard-pressed, it ain't gonna happen.

Not against EV, but I'm just not sure the tech is right at this moment in time. And you've the pollution aspect from the tyres and from the mining to get the raw materials needed to make the batteries. It's like stealing from Peter to pay Paul. I am considering solar panels at some point as it makes sense. But lifespan and recycling still pose questions.

I personally think there's too many grandiose vanity projects and willy waving going on when it comes to the environment. I'd much rather everyone did the little things. Like driving less / driving a smaller car, flying far less, recycling stuff, eschewing fast fashion, eating less meat etc because if we all did that, it would add up to a very big thing.

 

[mustang1]

People don't like change I think.

Certain people try to stir things up and spread false information too, probably backed by oil companies, etc.

I don't have an electric car, it would be financially suicidal for me to buy one, but I have nothing against them. If I was in the market for a new car, I'd certainly look into them in more detail.

Yup that's exactly what I was going to say.

Change: people don't like it.