Why do people get such strong feelings over electric cars and solar panels etc.

[Punkawallah]

Don’t confuse people ‘not liking change’ with people ‘seeing the emperor is naked’.
Imagine the UK cars changed to ev’s. 30 million ev’s needing 12 kWh per day (about the same usage as a 4 bed house) to charge. 360 million kWh per day, 360 mWh, .36 gWh, over 1% of the UK daily production of 27 gWh. Are we going to double the number of hydro electric plants, or double the number of coal plants, to supply this?

 

[Drago]

The head of National Grid says the system is up to it, and it's already nudging 40% from renewable on days when conditions are favourable.

I do wonder though if we'll still need gas fired capacity to bring online on thkse winter days when the wind doesn't blow and there is little sunshine.

 

[markemark]

The head of National Grid says the system is up to it, and it's already nudging 40% from renewable on days when conditions are favourable.

I do wonder though if we'll still need gas fired capacity to bring online on thkse winter days when the wind doesn't blow and there is little sunshine.

Indeed. The argument is often ‘what if everyone switched to an ev tomorrow’. Answer is they won’t. And nobody is suggesting they will. 10 years until they stop selling ICE cars and another 15 years before they become mostly obsolete for the masses so we have a good 25 years to get the infrastructure in place of renewables and nuclear.

 

[Slick]

We're certainly not going back to coal for our energy and I'm not even sure there will be more than one or two still operating in the country today. Scotland has been producing a surplus of renewable energy for a number of years now, so its far from impossible to increase that further.

 

[CXRAndy]

Don’t confuse people ‘not liking change’ with people ‘seeing the emperor is naked’.
Imagine the UK cars changed to ev’s. 30 million ev’s needing 12 kWh per day (about the same usage as a 4 bed house) to charge. 360 million kWh per day, 360 mWh, .36 gWh, over 1% of the UK daily production of 27 gWh. Are we going to double the number of hydro electric plants, or double the number of coal plants, to supply this?

The UK can already cope with EV demand up into the millions of vehicles. Most will charge at night when overall demand is low. The way an EV begins to charge is to slowly ramp up power demand. This is very beneficial to the grid, in that it doesn't need to cope with a huge surge eg kettle. Overnight charging put a steady constant demand not spikes.

Yes the UK constantly needs to upgrade its network- agree

Indeed. The argument is often ‘what if everyone switched to an ev tomorrow’. Answer is they won’t. And nobody is suggesting they will. 10 years until they stop selling ICE cars and another 15 years before they become mostly obsolete for the masses so we have a good 25 years to get the infrastructure in place of renewables and nuclear.

The demand curve will accelerate towards EV, this will decrease and shorten the ICE demand, reduce parts availability, increase said parts costs.

I don't know how much faster, but looking back from my electronics repair career, consumer products like cathode ray TV to flat screen tv, VHS to DVD, Audio tapes to MP3 to streaming phase out older quickly, I think ICE mass use will dwindle quite quickly too.

 

[All uphill]

One thing the ICE vs EV debate achieves is to preserve the idea that a car is essential for everyone. A bit like the old salesman's question " Would you like it in blue or red?"

 

[gbb]

Yup that's exactly what I was going to say.

Change: people don't like it.

While you're right in some ways (people naturally don't like change) ...I think you have to give people the credit that they've actually worked things out...and for millions, it just doesn't work out, its as simple as that. Its far more complex that 'I don't like change'

Infrastructure. I don't think ANY government has the will or the money to implement what's needed. Yes, it's a long term thing but the years are soon ticking away and people with EVs already complain about the lack of facilities.

Initial cost. Almost everyone at some stage is going to have to finance a huge lump of money they would never have had to.

Dubious environmental impact. What IS happening regarding battery recycling. Is the life of an EV actually going to be shorter than an ICE car based on battery replacement cost.? How much environmental impact is simply shifted from oil production to lithium and cobalt mining and battery production ?

Possible long term costs as batteries fail and then the car becomes a useless lump of steel and plastic.

Charging at home, for millions, its just not going to happen in a reliable way if you have no drive Street parking ?, if you turned over the entire length of the road so residents could charge, it simply wouldn't work on several levels. Space, in my street alone, 50 houses, you'd need 50 chargers or people are going to lose out. Vandalism, unreliability, selfish people leaving their car on charge all weekend, week, denying other road users. And the cost ?

And so on and so on....I'm a pretty average Joe, all these things have occurred to me, just as they will with millions of people like me.

It's not a knee jerk reaction, none of these questions have been answered in a comprehensive way, let alone ones I havnt thought of.

Equally, you have to concede, one of the problems is that ICE cars work SO well for people, that's actually part of the problem.

 

[TheDoctor]

I see it's the same old tropes...
EV batteries need replacing after 5-10 years. No they don't, they're guaranteed for 8 years. And they gradually decline. They don't get to 10 years old and explode / suddenly die.
Mining. Because oil drilling never hurt anyone.
If we all had EVs then UK power consumption would go up BY OVER 1%!! Oh, the humanity...
All we need now is a ridiculously contrived edge case of someone who regularly tows a caravan for 800 miles non-stop or some such.

 

[Baldy]

Equally, you have to concede, one of the problems is that ICE cars work SO well for people, that's actually part of the problem.

Yes but it took a long time to get where we are today. look back to cars in the sixties or seventies they've evolved a lot in just one life time. EV's are not perfect but they will get there very quickly. If I had the money I would buy a Nissen Leaf but I don't and since I retired I've found I'm using the car less than once a week, so probably don't really need it anyway.

 

[Tenkaykev]

All we need now is a ridiculously contrived edge case of someone who regularly tows a caravan for 800 miles non-stop or some such.

The " Ars Technica " website publishes lots of well researched Science based articles. In the comments section of an article discussing EV vehicle practicalities one commenter said that as a musical instrument repairer an EV would be of no use, citing one occasion when he purportedly had to travel several hundred miles for an emergency trombone repair.
This soon became a sort of trope, with the comments section of similar or related articles on EV range / feasibility mentioning " emergency trombone repair 😁

 

[Tenkaykev]

On the subject of SolarPV longevity. AEG have recently released new panels with industry leading efficiency. They are offering a 40 year warranty and guarantee that after that time the panels will still generate at least 87% of their original output. The operating parameters are -40 to +85 degrees C

 

[CXRAndy]

That's a good warranty

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The operating parameters are -40 to +85 degrees C

Good to see they are thinking about typical UK temps due to climate change.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Good to see they are thinking about typical UK temps due to climate change.

It's really astonishing how well engineered these panels must be to cope with such extremes of temperature and the expansion / contraction rates of the different materials.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Solar panels have just stopped generating. Nearly made it to 4:30 ☀️