Why is cycle navigation so complicated?

[Alex321]

???

Didn't you post this earlier?


It's an interesting topic and one where people have shared and learned things.

Starting a thread without the ability/inclination to follow and contribute is rude in my opinion.

It is, but he didn't do that. He is responding.

 

[mustang1]

Unless you have a waterproof map of course.

Ok ok, what about wind then huh?!

 

[Sloth]

???

Didn't you post this earlier?


It's an interesting topic and one where people have shared and learned things.

Starting a thread without the ability/inclination to follow and contribute is rude in my opinion.

Screw yer neck in son.
Lots of threads die after just a few posts!
And I never said I’d not respond at all , only that I’d not be able to as much as I’d usually do.
Some people 🙄
Thank you to all the kind responses.

 

[Solocle]

How do you find those os road maps?

Not seen them before.

They're quite useful for road touring. They don't show much in the way of off road stuff, and the ability to consider hilliness is very limited.

But the advantage of only needing one of two maps was huge.

For the Cornwall/Devon leg I did do some detailed strip maps, due to the very hilly nature of the area, and I was doing it in the dark. That was in case I needed to find an alternative to sections of the A30/A39.

Ironically, the only deviation I made was at 1am, turning off the A395 towards Launceston, I hit gravel on the road. Off the top of my head, I detoured by staying with the A395 and going on the A30. Wasn't busy, though.

 

[Jameshow]

They're quite useful for road touring. They don't show much in the way of off road stuff, and the ability to consider hilliness is very limited.

But the advantage of only needing one of two maps was huge.
View attachment 664160

View attachment 664161
For the Cornwall/Devon leg I did do some detailed strip maps, due to the very hilly nature of the area, and I was doing it in the dark. That was in case I needed to find an alternative to sections of the A30/A39.

Ironically, the only deviation I made was at 1am, turning off the A395 towards Launceston, I hit gravel on the road. Off the top of my head, I detoured by staying with the A395 and going on the A30. Wasn't busy, though.
View attachment 664162

Lejog??

 

[steveindenmark]

One of my roles in the military was a map reading instructor. If I were hiking across Dartmoor, I would use an OS map. When I am cycling in Europe I use either a Wahoo Bolt or a Garmin 1030 along with a range of apps, but mainly RidewithGPS.

I have just created a quite complicated route on RWGPS for a 73km ride this afternoon to capture some missing tiles for StatsHunters (Google it) The places I am going to get the tiles are a bit off the beaten track. It took me 10 minutes to plot. I will download to my Wahoo Bolt just before I set off. I also printed out a paper route, something I do not normally do. But as we are talking about navigation, what the hell.

It will take seconds to download onto my Wahoo Bolt and I am quite confident that it will be right. I will report back.

I have had a whole host of Garmins. My current one is the 1030. For ease of use it is nowhere near as good as the Wahoo Bolt. I really must persevere with it though. But the Wahoo does exactly what it is supposed to do every time. It is difficult not just to pick it up and go. At one stage Garmin was the only real choice but since Wahoo and others came on the scene, they have picked their game up.

Paper maps are fine. But I prefer Wahoo for bike touring. Its so quick and easy when you get used to it.

 

[Dogtrousers]

It's interesting to see other people's approach to route planning. I'm pretty obsessive about the detail of my planned routes and check it out beforehand using streetview and maps so I know what I'm in for.

I tagged along with a friend for the first week of his LEJoG. He had routes in his GPS (a Garmin I think). He treated this as a general guide and sometimes we'd go off course, sometimes intentionally sometimes not. Maybe he'd planned a section of towpath, but we'd discover that the surface was crap, or maybe we'd go way off course in search of lunch, or maybe we'd just get lost. When this happened, he would fire up his phone in his handlebar bag, speaker on full volume, pick a point ahead, and get Google Maps to voice direct us until we were back on the GPS track.

All off-topic of course because the OP isn't interested in planned routes. So sue me.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

It's interesting to see other people's approach to route planning

It is!
And probably a lot of us use a different approach on different rides. I know if I'm bringing someone along that I'll be extra careful in checking the route. Then again my bike will go pretty much anywhere.

I have also found that some people are determined to follow a gpx route no matter what.
I met a Dutch cyclist on the Vennbahn (an old railway line running through Germany, Belgium, Holland and finishing in Luxembourg) who was upset with me for not having maps (I'd no GPS either). It's a railway line - even I can't get lost . "Irresponsible", I think was the word used!
He was looking for a campground that I had passed earlier so I told him to stay on the line and he'd see the sign too. But his GPS had him going left and right, off the Vennbahn. Now, the Vennbahn is quite high and each exit required a steep downhill but each return required a just as steep climb. He followed his GPS and when I passed a sweating, gibbering mess later he did not return my cheery greeting

Just because I have a GPS and a planned route (or routes) doesn't mean I'm a slave to all the beeps and arrows. It means that I'm freer to explore whatever catches my eye "over there" because I'm confident that I can get back on track.

he would fire up his phone in his handlebar bag, speaker on full volume, pick a point ahead, and get Google Maps to voice direct us until we were back on the GPS track.

Yet another solution for the OP's problem.

And as for the title......
Cycle navigation (like many things to do with cycling) is only as complicated as we make it.
I had to learn how to fix a puncture and I had toearn how to use my GPS. Both have increased my enjoyment of riding my bike.

 

[derrick]

It's interesting to see other people's approach to route planning. I'm pretty obsessive about the detail of my planned routes and check it out beforehand using streetview and maps so I know what I'm in for.

I tagged along with a friend for the first week of his LEJoG. He had routes in his GPS (a Garmin I think). He treated this as a general guide and sometimes we'd go off course, sometimes intentionally sometimes not. Maybe he'd planned a section of towpath, but we'd discover that the surface was crap, or maybe we'd go way off course in search of lunch, or maybe we'd just get lost. When this happened, he would fire up his phone in his handlebar bag, speaker on full volume, pick a point ahead, and get Google Maps to voice direct us until we were back on the GPS track.

All off-topic of course because the OP isn't interested in planned routes. So sue me.

The later Wahoo and Garmin have a re route feature, so no problem when you come off route.

 

[Solocle]

Lejog??

Indeed.

One thing I did for myself often was to mark the biggest climbs of the day on the Wahoo (RidewithGPS editing). Which was especially useful as I went up the middle of the country - Peak District, Yorkshire Dales, Fleet Moss.

I never actually needed my paper maps, their purpose was always a fallback. But better to have and not need, rather than need and not have.

Navigation on the final day was especially easy...

 

[GuyBoden]

I'll be riding 60-70 miles today in Cheshire without a GPS or map. I don't know what the route will be, but I know the area very well.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

The later Wahoo and Garmin have a re route feature, so no problem when you come off route.

I wouldn't really say "no problem" and this is the nub of the issue really - the ability of a bike computer to generate a route (or reroute) on its own.
A lot will depend on the user's location (lots of cycling options or not?), the user's bike and its limitations and the model/newness/maps of the unit.

My experience of rerouting is mixed, so much so that I have it disabled on my unit. Sometimes it would get me back on track smoothly and sometimes not. If I can't figure it out myself I'm going to use my phone first. It is far more reliable.

On a side note is there any unit that can generate a route on its own and give elevation data?

 

[scragend]

Beeline! Velo2. I can never remember the name either. I keep thinking about putting it on my Christmas list, in the meantime I carry a map and a list of directions. I’ve found some great places when getting lost though. I have the OS map app for walking and it is an absolute game changer for someone who can get lost getting out of bed. I don’t know how I feel about technology on the bike though. I don’t have anything attached to the handlebars except a bell.

There is a simple device that just points you in the direction you need to go. I'd imagine having "home" as a set place it may well do what you seek. Can't for the life of me remember the name Buzz? Bumble? It's mentioned on a few threads here.

I have the original Beeline Velo. I like it; it tells me where to go without being too intrusive/prescriptive - I didn't want a map permanently displayed on my handlebars, or a speedo or anything like that (the Velo has a speedo but only if you scroll through to it).

With the Velo I just get an arrow pointing which direction to go in. It's not perfect; the navigation is done on the phone app and connected by Bluetooth so it can be a bit laggy. Also at complx junctions the arrow can be a bit ambiguous.

I'm very tempted by a Velo2, which seems to be an improvement, although losing the integrated mount/protective case feels like a bit of a backward step.

P.S. Don't try to use the Bumble app for cycling. That one's for a different kind of ride

 

[Dogtrousers]

The later Wahoo and Garmin have a re route feature, so no problem when you come off route.

Ah ... there is a philosophical problem for a GPS when the rider goes off route, and my Garmin 530 does not deal well with it. I can't speak for Wahoos.

The problem is: Do I route the user back to where they went off route, or as near as possible to it (so the rider covers as much of their planned route as possible) or do I route the user to some point ahead that is on-route, even if that means staying off the route and running parallel for a while.

The second option is what a person would do - keep heading in roughly the right direction until eventually you get back on route. The first option is what my Garmin tends to do, which can mean doubling back just so that it can get back to the security of the route. Algorithms in a little GPS unit aren't good at concepts like "roughly" and "eventually"

How long are you happy to stay off-route? How long is a piece of string. An algorithm can't know whether the user is happy rejoining the route after another hour's riding, or whether they really want to get back on route pronto because otherwise they will miss a lovely view or an audax control point or something. That's where the Google maps trick comes in. You, the user, pick the point where you want to get back on as near or as far away as you feel like.

 

[spen666]

Sorry if this is in the wrong sub-forum.

As I await my new bike I’ve been doing some online ‘research’ into a few extras.
One is for some form of navigation.
I know there are three basic options here, 1: Human nav app. Know where you’re going at all times, 2: Use an app on your phone, or 3: Use a specialised cycling nav computer such as a Garmin.
From reading a little it seems that it’s too much to ask for a nav tool that has accurate pre-loaded maps, options to avoid main roads (that actually works!) and an intuitive and easy to use interface.
I’m not interested in pre-loading routes, nor do I want to become a software engineer in order to use the darn thing.
I’d like to disappear into the local countryside and use the in built maps and nav to get home (or to anywhere) should I get lost or just wish to go somewhere but don’t know the way.
I’d like to just set it like I do my car nav, but for it to be cycle friendly and not send me onto dangerous and busy roads (for example just sticking to B roads or country lanes but to also avoid any off-roading).
Why is this such a big ask and why is it seemingly necessary to mess around on complicated settings to even try?
I read so much about so called road avoidance settings simply not working or not being available. This should be a standard and reliable feature of the device or app is sold as for cycling.
I fear for any astronauts being sent to Mars if we can’t even provide a reliable navigation tool for a cycle?
Perhaps I’ve totally missed something here but willingly await education on the subject.
Thanks.

The big problem is what you call cycle friendly routes is likely to be different to the next person.
Some are happy on bust A Roads and think they are cycle friendly because there are fewer junctions, faster etc.

Others think cycle friendly is totally segregated routs.
some want tarmac roads, some are happy with dirt tracks


What you want is very subjective and its not simple like a car route avoiding toll roads. A toll road is an objective thing. A cycle friendly route is subjective

Haven't even got to mentioning avoiding hills etc