why is cycling better in belgium?

[Flying_Monkey]

Good points. Without wishing to be too much of a nit-picker....Holland actually has a slighly higher population density than England.

Much higher, in fact. It's almost double that of the UK (over 1,020 to 640 people per square mile). And the Netherlands has just as many historic towns with narrow streets. So that excuse is out too. Sure, it's flat. But Dutch people seem to have a more civil and civic attitude.

And Belgium isn't flat at all, and certainly it's cities can be just as hilly as British ones - Brussels is just as hilly as London. The big problem with Belgium is the older drivers who never had driving lessons (there was no need for a driving test until the mid-1970s, I think).

 

[Arch]

Is there a difference in the type of density? I get the feeling that in Europe there are more people living in city centres than there are here, and less suburbia, but I don't know if that's true. If so, that would encourage cycling - less room for garages, less need to travel great distances (I'm using the term great to cover what the average person thinks - a couple of miles). Suburbia, garages, miles into town, all makes for car dependency.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

That's certainly true for the Netherlands - people live in the city centres, and new developments are planned with public transport and cycling at their core - the VINEX program which is currently building several extensions to existing towns being a key example.

 

[knackeredknees]

[QUOTE=Flying_Monkey;983063. But Dutch people seem to have a more civil and civic attitude.


I think this is one of the most important aspects of the problem, there is little sense of community left in the UK and people are more inclined to blame each other and less inclined to see each others point of view. It almost seems to be sort of divide and conquer situation, endorsed by the politicians, keep everyone arguing amongst themselves and hardly anyone will notice whats really going on.

The transport system in the UK has always been controlled by the road transport lobby, just look at Beeching and the Minister for transport that started building motorways they both had their noses in the trough; unfortunately this situation seems unlikely to change. Big business and international corporations now seem to run this country, profit is always put before people and the views of the electorate matter very little.

 

[slowmotion]

Much higher, in fact. It's almost double that of the UK (over 1,020 to 640 people per square mile). And the Netherlands has just as many historic towns with narrow streets. So that excuse is out too. Sure, it's flat. But Dutch people seem to have a more civil and civic attitude.

).

You are right about Holland/UK density ratios. The Holland/England ratio that I mentioned is 395/383, people per square km.

I take the point about historic towns, but my guess is that there are far, far more narrow winding roads in England that cannot accomodate bike lanes. That's just based on very limited experience, and a look at maps.

I completely agree about the attitude of the Dutch. They all cycle, so when they get behind the wheel, they drive with consideration. I found it a great place to ride, and will return as soon as possible.

 

[snorri]

I agree with FM, it's in the psyche, and not due to any of the physical features of the country, man made or natural.

 

[slowmotion]

I agree with FM, it's in the psyche, and not due to any of the physical features of the country, man made or natural.

But a large part of the psyche could be determined by the physical features of the landscape, perhaps. If the Dutch had mountains, like the Swiss, they would not have canals, would not have reclaimed polders, and would not grow tulips, or ride bikes. Without their canals, they might never have established a global trading empire. Simplistic, yes, but I would venture that the geography of one's country has a huge lot to do with the general demeanour of the locals.

The Dutch just got lucky.

 

[John the Monkey]

Probably holds for the Dutch, slowmotion, but then how do you explain the French & Belgians? Both countries have some challenging terrain, and yet are much more considerate of cyclists.

 

[User169]

Probably holds for the Dutch, slowmotion, but then how do you explain the French & Belgians? Both countries have some challenging terrain, and yet are much more considerate of cyclists.

A motorist hits a cyclist; it's his/her fault. Might focus minds somewhat?

 

[User169]

The Royal Family are responsible for people treating cyclists badly? How does that work then, when the Netherlands and Denmark, both lovely to cycle in, both have royal families too?

Quite the opposite in NL. The mother of the present queen was often seen on a bicycle....

 

[dellzeqq]

Theirs an indirectness in this country - about doing anything it stems from the monachy...they're top-dog and anything that needs doing needs the ok'in from 'er upstairs - even the PM needs the ok to do anything; even going the toilet !

And so this filters down to smaller matter like keeping people alive and the effect conditions on roads can have on CYCLISTS !

he's right. When did you ever see the Queen of England on a bike?

 

[User169]

Nice hat! The Dutch royal family cunningly increase their popularity by having a public holiday in honour of the queen.

And what do they do?? Have a dirty great drunken jumble sale!

 

[Fnaar]

Is there a difference in the type of density? I get the feeling that in Europe there are more people living in city centres than there are here, and less suburbia, but I don't know if that's true. If so, that would encourage cycling - less room for garages, less need to travel great distances (I'm using the term great to cover what the average person thinks - a couple of miles). Suburbia, garages, miles into town, all makes for car dependency.

Good point Arch... lots more people living in city flats (nice ones, without wee on the stairs)

 

[snorri]

Queen of England

England gone independent when I was away for a couple of days?

 

[Origamist]

.

http://www.movietone.com/N_search.c...queen bicycle&V_Year=1943&V_resultsPerPage=10

Watch the King, Lilybet and Margaret cycle through the countryside...

PS You might have to register on Movietone's website...