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User482
Guest
So because you can't do everything, you should do nothing.
Why pick on diesel?
- Thread starter gavroche
- Start date
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raleighnut
Legendary Member
- Location
- One of the 'Elite'
I don't fly on Holiday, I cycle, what food I cannot grow myself I try to buy locally produced.
I'm not anti-car at all (in fact I can be a bit of a 'petrol head' and that is the reason I don't drive on the roads) but diesel engines for cars.
OP
OP
gavroche
Getting old but not past it
- Location
- North Wales
You are entitled to your own opinion.
OP
OP
gavroche
Getting old but not past it
- Location
- North Wales
I do my bit. I own a modern car which is cleaner than older car, I recycled my rubbish, I cycle whenever I can instead of using the car, I don't overheat my house or light it like Blackpool illumination, don't waste food etc... so I do my bit.
It's diesel particulates which are the cause of concern and the way they are absorbed and interact in the body, in particular their role in heart disease. but not just heart disease.
It takes a long time for this stuff to seep into public health and legislation but I knew about particulates in diesel back in '93, though not what role they might play in health but certainly fuel manufacturers where already working on cleaning diesel fuel up back then. I imagine there's a lot more to come out yet.
It takes a long time for this stuff to seep into public health and legislation but I knew about particulates in diesel back in '93, though not what role they might play in health but certainly fuel manufacturers where already working on cleaning diesel fuel up back then. I imagine there's a lot more to come out yet.
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User482
Guest
You see owning a modern diesel as doing your bit?
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User482
Guest
And NOx.
Yes and NOx. I don't know much about NOx, which is why I didn't specifically mention it but and here's one Gavroche can try at home, I googled it: Nasty stuff.
outlash
also available in orange
- Location
- ice station zebra
No, it was a question based on your previous post. I would have thought given your experience in education you could tell the difference.
slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
When is there going to be a reversal of official policy that tells the citizens that burning coal is "a Good Thing" after all?
Great car.
T.M.H.N.E.T
Rainbows aren't just for world champions
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Car go boom, cost money
KneesUp
Guru
I don't think it's just Manchester and Liverpool. Reports of various cities considering this promoted me to change car from diesel to petrol last year (although I was considering changing anyway as the old one was near the end of it's life.)
I've owned several diesel cars - in fact I owned an example of the first mass produced car with a common rail diesel way back in 2002, when 224 lb-ft of torque was exceptional, and to have that and 41mpg on the commute was mind-blowing. I loved that car, and although the subsequent diesels weren't as powerful or smooth, I absolutely appreciate that a diesel engine is lovely to drive. The Alfa (the first one) once whisked me from Manchester to Glasgow airport in a little under 3 hours and barely went above 3000 rpm. Their 'barely turning over' power delivery and the fact that all the torque is there basically from idle to a reasonble rev limit makes them perfect for barelling up and down the motorway. I do like a diesel.
However, there is no getting around the fact that they stink, and that the stink is made up of all sorts of stuff that are ruinous to human health, and no doubt to the whole envioronment. As others have said, it's horrible to ride near one, and these days I even find myself put the car heater on recirculate quite often in traffic.
The reliability thing is a myth too. Diesels have gone from the pathetically underpowered Peugeots of the 1970s to the massively powerful cars of today not because physics has changed, but because the engines has several thousand pounds worth of electronics bolted to them. Just like petrol engines do.
I now run a petrol car, and I'm used to it having less torque, and I'm now used to using the fact that it revs (although it still sounds wrong to me after all the years of deisel driving) and, yes, I still feel guilty using it for trips where I could use the bike (often on my round trip I have something heavy to carry one way but not the other, or I have people to collect one way but not the other) but overall I'm happier that the damage I am causing is less than it would be in a disel car.
And the other bonus is when I come home late, the young neighbours don't come out thinking their taxi has arrived.
I've owned several diesel cars - in fact I owned an example of the first mass produced car with a common rail diesel way back in 2002, when 224 lb-ft of torque was exceptional, and to have that and 41mpg on the commute was mind-blowing. I loved that car, and although the subsequent diesels weren't as powerful or smooth, I absolutely appreciate that a diesel engine is lovely to drive. The Alfa (the first one) once whisked me from Manchester to Glasgow airport in a little under 3 hours and barely went above 3000 rpm. Their 'barely turning over' power delivery and the fact that all the torque is there basically from idle to a reasonble rev limit makes them perfect for barelling up and down the motorway. I do like a diesel.
However, there is no getting around the fact that they stink, and that the stink is made up of all sorts of stuff that are ruinous to human health, and no doubt to the whole envioronment. As others have said, it's horrible to ride near one, and these days I even find myself put the car heater on recirculate quite often in traffic.
The reliability thing is a myth too. Diesels have gone from the pathetically underpowered Peugeots of the 1970s to the massively powerful cars of today not because physics has changed, but because the engines has several thousand pounds worth of electronics bolted to them. Just like petrol engines do.
I now run a petrol car, and I'm used to it having less torque, and I'm now used to using the fact that it revs (although it still sounds wrong to me after all the years of deisel driving) and, yes, I still feel guilty using it for trips where I could use the bike (often on my round trip I have something heavy to carry one way but not the other, or I have people to collect one way but not the other) but overall I'm happier that the damage I am causing is less than it would be in a disel car.
And the other bonus is when I come home late, the young neighbours don't come out thinking their taxi has arrived.
U
User482
Guest
Indeed, and round these parts it is NOx rather than particulates that is the reason for us breaching air pollution limits. Still, the latest diesels are only three times worse than their official figures so Gavroche will be pleased.
I loved the simplicity and indestructibility of the older diesels, especially the 1980s VWs. Noisy things but if driven to keep it in the rather narrow power band and change gear to suit, not as sluggish as many people claimed and capable of exceptional fuel economy if not over-revved.
But once they started to make them ever more complex and as fuel injection and distributorless ignition systems improved petrol cars I've gone off diesels.
The other thing is that the petrol version of any car will always be smoother, quieter and (especially in the case of small cars) nicer to drive due to less weight aiding sharper steering responses, less understeer and better ride quality. I also feel that the extra weight of the diesel engine contributes to suspension and brake wear.
I can't think of any real reason to buy a diesel car unless you cover huge mileage. Fuel consumption for the average car user is something of a red herring IMO. If you maintain it yourself you could probably run an old 6 cylinder petrol BMW or Merc cheaper than the latest 70mpg biscuit tin if you take depreciation and maintenance costs into account.
But once they started to make them ever more complex and as fuel injection and distributorless ignition systems improved petrol cars I've gone off diesels.
The other thing is that the petrol version of any car will always be smoother, quieter and (especially in the case of small cars) nicer to drive due to less weight aiding sharper steering responses, less understeer and better ride quality. I also feel that the extra weight of the diesel engine contributes to suspension and brake wear.
I can't think of any real reason to buy a diesel car unless you cover huge mileage. Fuel consumption for the average car user is something of a red herring IMO. If you maintain it yourself you could probably run an old 6 cylinder petrol BMW or Merc cheaper than the latest 70mpg biscuit tin if you take depreciation and maintenance costs into account.
