Why Primary?

[Origamist]

lets get back to the incident at hand.

There is a bus lane which ends, and a lane of traffic to the right. where should you cycle? in the middle of the bus lane and continue that in the normal lane. For cars to overtake you, they should move in to the second lane. that is wether or not your cycling in primary. By cycling in primary you force them to use the other lane to overtake. You may get a few close passes doing this, but at least your not cycling next to the curb, and at least you know you did all you could to force them to give you room.

Indeed. It's only Jim that has suggested the OP consider riding in secondary - given the lane widths, the approaching junction and the numbers of buses in the area, this is not sensible advice if you want to avoid countless close overtakes and left hooks.

Here's one min of me riding in primary (I'm alive!) and a bit if film of a girl getting squidged into the gutter by a bus:

View: http://vimeo.com/12621332

 

[BentMikey]

Dude, you've got to report that bus!!

 

[Bollo]

Indeed. It's only Jim that has suggested the OP consider riding in secondary - given the lane widths, the approaching junction and the numbers of buses in the area, this is not sensible advice if you want to avoid countless close overtakes and left hooks.

Here's one min of me riding in primary (I'm alive!) and a bit if film of a girl getting squidged into the gutter by a bus:

View: http://vimeo.com/12621332

That bus overtake was a horror! Whatever you think of the lady's positioning skills, staying upright during that overtake showed some guts.

 

[Origamist]

Dude, you've got to report that bus!!

Reported to TFL.

That bus overtake was a horror! Whatever you think of the lady's positioning skills, staying upright during that overtake showed some guts.

Unflappable. I had a good look at her when I overtook to see if she was shaken-up, but she had an inscrutable expression and I carried on. I should have checked that she was OK as she might have been discombobulated by the idiocy of the bus driver's manoeuvre.

 

[HLaB]

Not really studies though is it? If I've got the correct project it was one bloke in one city doing one experiment.

Apologies if I'm wrong.

Its been repeated in other studies (Parkin, Bolton) but I don't hold too much confidence in the results of these one of studies even if they were done by University Professors. My own experience tells me its completely random passing distances, some folk will pass you close whatever position you are in.

 

[HLaB]

Welcome back, Ravenbait.

It was the Walker study. However, I can't recall if he was simultaneously measuring overtaking distance and distance from the kerb/road edge. The former, definitely - the latter, I'm not so sure about.

He followed a laser guided path depending what distance from the kerb was required.

 

[Origamist]

He followed a laser guided path depending what distance from the kerb was required.

Yes, but this was only a guide and the cyclist would have undoubtedly deviated. The ultra sonic measuring equipment was only measuring overtaking distance.

 

[HLaB]

Yes, but this was only a guide and the cyclist would have undoubtedly deviated. The ultra sonic measuring equipment was only measuring overtaking distance.

Yip, the words from his report kinda admit the possibly of deviation and you are right the ultrasonic device only measured the passing distance.

A Trek hybrid bicycle was fitted with a Massa M-5000/95
temperature-compensated ultrasonic distance sensor with its
centre 0.77m from the ground, facing perpendicularly to the
direction of travel and feeding into a laptop computer running
MultiLab software via a MultiLog Pro data-logger sampling
from the sensor at 50 Hz. The computer simultaneously received
input from a video camera mounted on the handlebars. A laser
pointed to the ground on the rider’s left and could be adjusted to
mark various distances from the bicycle’s centreline, thus allowing
the rider to maintain relatively fixed paths from the edge of
the useable roadway. The equipment was concealed from passing
motorists by a pair of ordinary panniers and, in the case of
the camera, the rider’s body. A white Giro helmet was worn for
part of the study.

 

[jimboalee]

There are two types of cyclist. 'Trendies' and 'Duffers'.

Trendies read 'How to ride a bicycle' from a book and preach to anyone who is willing to listen.

Duffers have forty or more years of riding a bike round towns and cities and have seen all the motorist bad behaviour you could think of.


That Vid comes as no surprise. She hasn't got a clue. She must be the forgotten third type of cyclist. The 'Dimwit'.

 

[Origamist]

There are two types of cyclist. 'Trendies' and 'Duffers'.

Trendies read 'How to ride a bicycle' from a book and preach to anyone who is willing to listen.

Duffers have forty or more years of riding a bike round towns and cities and have seen all the motorist bad behaviour you could think of.


That Vid comes as no surprise. She hasn't got a clue. She must be the forgotten third type of cyclist. The 'Dimwit'.

Pouring scorn on other cyclists is easy, Jim, but it isn't constructive. It was only a couple of months ago, and on this very forum that an experienced, hige mileage "duffer" cyclist discovered the difference between the terms primary and secondary...

Back to the OP, can you elaborate why you think the cyclist should consider riding in secondary?

 

[dondare]

Indeed. It's only Jim that has suggested the OP consider riding in secondary - given the lane widths, the approaching junction and the numbers of buses in the area, this is not sensible advice if you want to avoid countless close overtakes and left hooks.

Here's one min of me riding in primary (I'm alive!) and a bit if film of a girl getting squidged into the gutter by a bus:

View: http://vimeo.com/12621332

If he'd passed any closer he'd 've had to sell her a ticket.

When she came into view it was like a conjuring trick.

 

[Origamist]

If he'd passed any closer he'd 've had to sell her a ticket.

When she came into view it was like a conjuring trick.

Yep, she could have swiped her Oyster card if the door was open.

I did wonder why the bus indicated, but hardly moved right (it stopped me from overtaking as I assumed it was passing a stationary vehicle or road works) and then all became clear...

 

[hackbike 666]

300 pages.

 

[dondare]

There are two types of cyclist. 'Trendies' and 'Duffers'.

Trendies read 'How to ride a bicycle' from a book and preach to anyone who is willing to listen.

Duffers have forty or more years of riding a bike round towns and cities and have seen all the motorist bad behaviour you could think of.


That Vid comes as no surprise. She hasn't got a clue. She must be the forgotten third type of cyclist. The 'Dimwit'.

Good use of irony.

 

[joebingo]

There are two types of cyclist. 'Trendies' and 'Duffers'.

Trendies read 'How to ride a bicycle' from a book and preach to anyone who is willing to listen.

Duffers have forty or more years of riding a bike round towns and cities and have seen all the motorist bad behaviour you could think of.


That Vid comes as no surprise. She hasn't got a clue. She must be the forgotten third type of cyclist. The 'Dimwit'.

Don't know what I am tbh, I haven't the experience to be a duffer, and suppose that technically I'm a trendy. My riding practices are based largely on the videos and experiences I've seen on here, though mostly on my own (short, admittedly) on road experience. I certainly didn't come on here to preach to anyone, willing to listen or otherwise.

Why was I in primary? I was going quickly (between 25/27, slight downhill and the wind was on my side), the quite narrow bus lane was active but empty apparently for miles behind me. If I'd been in secondary, I wouldn't have seen the guy as much of a threat and wouldn't have shouted as soon, and he wouldn't have noticed me and slammed on his brakes. My escape route would have included a kerb, on skinny high pressure tyres, they aren't good.

My normal riding position is a strong secondary, I take the lane when there's no reason to do otherwise. In the traffic conditions in my OP (stationary traffic jam on the right, nothing behind me for ages and me traveling fast), I chose to be in primary and I dare say it saved me a fair amount of pain. I don't make a conscious conceited attempt whenever I go out riding to hog the lane regardless of what's happening behind me lol . However, in this case, if there was someone behind me I would have been in primary as there is nowhere near enough space to pass in the lane.