William Dunlop - RIP

[Crackle]

[QUOTE 5307262, member: 45"]I don't think that's happening on this thread. I think people are suggesting that if someone is choosing to have children then it's maybe not the best idea to choose a hobby which brings a pretty high prospect of taking a parent away from them before they reach adulthood. Or in this case, before they're born. Some might see that as overly selfish.[/QUOTE]
There was a British Mountaineer, Julie Tullis (Google her) who died climbing K2. She was not just a mountaineer and a good one but a mother of, I think, two small children. The mainstream press wrung it's hands at her decision, even the mountaineering press were uncomfortable with it all. Her book, Clouds From Both Sides, a great read, says, 'if I could choose a place to die it would be the mountains..." There is an acceptance which most of us would find hard to ever understand.

 

[Levo-Lon]

I think the important statistic is likelihood of death/serious injury per hour spent on that activity. The reason a lot of people die whilst horse-riding is because, in the main, there are a lot of horse riders

Racing motorbikes is not the most dangerous sport per hour spent. For that you have to look at thinks like mountaineering over 7000m, base jumping and the like. But motorcycle racing is a dangerous sport when you consider the number of deaths and the hours spent doing it

Like @User I do struggle to comprehend how, when you have dependents, you can do something really dangerous for no reason other than your own personal pleasure. It seems selfish to me but I appreciate it's part of their personality

I agree, but as you say it's part of them and they are as most of us often think " imortal" especially in our teens twenties..we're supposed to grow up!!
It wont happen to me then wallop

 

[FishFright]

[QUOTE 5307293, member: 45"]Over 270 recorded deaths on the Isle of Man since 1910.

This in Ireland:

North West 200 and Irish Road Racing[edit]
Year Rider Series Ref
1939 Norman Wainwright North West 200 [151]
1949 P. L. Phillips North West 200 [152]
1951 William Bennison North West 200 [153]
1955 Julian Crossley Ulster Grand Prix [154]
1956 Bill Aislabie North West 200 [155]
1956 Derek Ennett Ulster Grand Prix [156]
1961 Carl Todd Killinchy 150 [157]
1961 Ron Miles Ulster Grand Prix [158]
1970 Andy Manship North West 200 [159]
1973 Graham Fish North West 200 [160]
1974 Norman Connor Killinchy 150 [161]
1977 Geoff Barry Killinchy 150 [162]
1977 George Oates Ulster Grand Prix [163]
1977 John Molyneux Ulster Grand Prix [164]
1978 Monty Swann Ulster Grand Prix [165]
1978 John Williams Ulster Grand Prix [166]
1979 Brian Hamilton North West 200 [167]
1979 Tom Herron North West 200 [124][vague]
1979 Frank Kennedy North West 200 [168]
1980 Mervyn Robinson North West 200 [169]
1982 John Newbold North West 200 [124][vague]
1983 Gerard Frame Killinchy 150 [170]
1986 Pat McLaughlin North West 200 [171]
1986 Stephen Smyth Ulster Grand Prix [172]
1987 Steve Bull North West 200 [173]
1987 Elaine Surgenor Killinchy 150 [174]
1987 Klaus Klein Ulster Grand Prix [175]
1992 Oral Watson Tandragee 100
1992 Steve Johnson Ulster Grand Prix [176]
1994 Geoff Calvin Dundrod 150 [177]
1996 Daniel Humphreys Tandragee 100 [178]
1997 Steven Galligan Ulster Grand Prix [179]
1999 Donny Robinson North West 200 [180]
1999 Owen McNally Ulster Grand Prix [181]
2001 Gerald Allaway Ulster Grand Prix [182]
2002 Gary Jess Ulster Grand Prix [183]
2004 Andy Wallace Ulster Grand Prix [184]
2006 Darran Lindsay Killalane Road Races [124][vague]
2007 John Donnan Tandragee 100
2008 Robert Dunlop North West 200 [124][vague]
2008 Martin Finnegan Tandragee 100 [124][vague]
2009 Mark Young North West 200 [124][vague]
2010 Victor Gilmore Killalane Road Races [185]
2012 Mark Buckley North West 200 [186]
2012 Lee Vernon Dundrod 150 [187]
2014 Noel Murphy Tandragee 100 [188]
2014 Simon Andrews North West 200 [189]
2016 Malachi Mitchell-Thomas North West 200
2017 Dario Cecconi Tandragee 100 [190]
Jamie Hodson Ulster Grand Prix [191]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider_deaths_in_motorcycle_racing#Isle_of_Man_–_TT,_Manx_Grand_Prix_and_Southern_100[/QUOTE]


The copy and paste foo is strong in this one

 

[Dirk]

There is an acceptance which most of us would find hard to ever understand.

I would say it would be impossible to understand unless your reality encompasses it.

 

[Dirk]

[QUOTE 5307397, member: 45"]Understand is different to accept or agree.[/QUOTE]
It's easier to accept or agree with something if you understand it.

 

[Crackle]

There was a British Mountaineer, Julie Tullis (Google her) who died climbing K2. She was not just a mountaineer and a good one but a mother of, I think, two small children. The mainstream press wrung it's hands at her decision, even the mountaineering press were uncomfortable with it all. Her book, Clouds From Both Sides, a great read, says, 'if I could choose a place to die it would be the mountains..." There is an acceptance which most of us would find hard to ever understand.

Sorry, although there are similarities, I'm mixing her up with Alison Hargreaves. What's interesting about both, apart from everything, was the higher mortality rate of women climbing 8000 metre peaks and the reasons behind that. But I risks sending the thread on a different tangent by expanding on it.

 

[Dirk]

[QUOTE 5307446, member: 45"]Not in this case. Understanding why someone indulges in very high risk activities doesn't make it less selfish or more acceptable to risk removing a parent from a child.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but I was speaking from the purely subjective viewpoint of the person participating in the sport.

 

[Smokin Joe]

[QUOTE 5307446, member: 45"]Not in this case. Understanding why someone indulges in very high risk activities doesn't make it less selfish or more acceptable to risk removing a parent from a child.[/QUOTE]

Most racing drivers are married, would you class them all as selfish?

 

[raleighnut]

I think the important statistic is likelihood of death/serious injury per hour spent on that activity. The reason a lot of people die whilst horse-riding is because, in the main, there are a lot of horse riders

Racing motorbikes is not the most dangerous sport per hour spent. For that you have to look at thinks like mountaineering over 7000m, base jumping and the like. But motorcycle racing is a dangerous sport when you consider the number of deaths and the hours spent doing it

Like @User I do struggle to comprehend how, when you have dependents, you can do something really dangerous for no reason other than your own personal pleasure. It seems selfish to me but I appreciate it's part of their personality

Don't forget there is quite a bit of money racing at the top level, riders of William Dunlop's ilk make a fair bit nowadays.

 

[Dirk]

[QUOTE 5307592, member: 45"]
This family has lost 3 members to the sport. What were they? Not very good at it?[/QUOTE]
I can't believe I just read that!

 

[raleighnut]

[QUOTE 5307592, member: 45"]Anyone who does anything for his/herself to the detriment of others is being selfish by definition.

Motorcycle road racing is far more dangerous than driving race cars on a track. Bikes are more dangerous on the track than cars.

This family has lost 3 members to the sport. What were they? Not very good at it?[/QUOTE]
4, Joey's brother in law Mervyn Robinson was killed in 1980.

EDIT - BTW that makes him William's Uncle in case you weren't sure.

 

[Dirk]

[QUOTE 5307626, member: 45"]That was the point. The fact that three family members have died isn't a sign of incompetence, it's an indication of the level of risk associated with the activity.[/QUOTE]
It could have been phrased better.

 

[Dirk]

[QUOTE 5307649, member: 45"]You could have quoted the whole post, taken note of everything else I've said on the subject, and not taken the sentence out of context.[/QUOTE]
Your post would have made your point perfectly adequately without the last sentence which, quite frankly, I found offensive.
But this thread is not one in which to get involved in petty squabbles about semantics; it's about the tragic loss of a young and talented man.
RIP William.

 

[Smokin Joe]

[QUOTE 5307592, member: 45"]Anyone who does anything for his/herself to the detriment of others is being selfish by definition.

[/QUOTE]
The partners of bike racers know the score when they marry them and chose to have families with them. They accept the risks just as they accept the rewards.

 

[raleighnut]

[QUOTE 5307694, member: 45"]The children don't.[/QUOTE]
William and Michael certainly benefitted from their dad Robert's involvement in road racing.