It looks to me like she has a sharp legal team who have found a point of law on which to base an appeal. The article seems to indicate it will revolve around whether it was unlawful or not for Grey to shout an expletive and gesture aggressively. They seem to be interpreting that as the need to prove that she intended the cyclist harm or fear of harm. The appeal court have clearly agreed that there is a legal point to be considered.
Woman convicted of manslaughter after swearing and gesturing at 77 year old cyclist.
- Thread starter Cycleops
- Start date
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T4tomo
Legendary Member
hopefully enough in it for "threatening behaviour" or similar to stand up, that's an unlawful act, and I cant see there being any argument that it was grey's actions that caused the poor lady to fall off into the road.
BoldonLad
Not part of the Elite
- Location
- South Tyneside
If there is not a law against members of the public being sworn at by random passers-by, in a public place, there should be.
Kingfisher101
Über Member
It wasn't that she just shouted at her, she touched her and had a total mad rant slap bang next to a busy line of traffic. Obviously any person would realize that was very dangerous?
If she gets off it will set a president for even worse behaviour towards cyclists. She needs to do her time and shut up. If you cant do the time then don't do the crime as they say.
If she gets off it will set a president for even worse behaviour towards cyclists. She needs to do her time and shut up. If you cant do the time then don't do the crime as they say.
BrumJim
Forum Stalwart (won't take the hint and leave...)
- Location
- Selly Oak, Birmingham
I'm not getting the "she's autistic, so can't be held responsible for her own actions" excuse. Surely as an autistic person she is fully aware that if she swears at someone and knocks them into a busy road, she is going to be in serious trouble. She has autism, not learning difficulties.
Alex321
Veteran
- Location
- South Wales
We don't know the details of her diagnosis (obviously), but autism covers a spectrum of conditions, and some forms do include a seriously reduced sense of consequence. Some people think that autism just means a lack of empathy, but that is not true at all. That is just one of the commoner symptoms.
Time Waster
Veteran
I know a now 30 year old man with ASD he is a nice, gentle guy but he can lose it and become potentially dangerous. Not his fault but his disorder. Fortunately his mum can control such incidents, his dad less so. Carers less so. General public, other family members and police I very much doubt they'd handle him in an agitated state without a degree of violence or force of numbers against him.
Autism, or ASD, is a wide ranging spectrum disorder operating on iirc 7 spectrums (not a straight line but multiple lines or a radar chart). Without knowing the aggressors diagnosis her behaviour could be self controlled or not. I suspect she is sufficiently high function to be charged and found guilty in the first place such that ASD is not enough of a factor to affect her actions being an offence.
This is one appeal relying on technicalities within the law I reckon, loopholes or other questionable point.
Autism, or ASD, is a wide ranging spectrum disorder operating on iirc 7 spectrums (not a straight line but multiple lines or a radar chart). Without knowing the aggressors diagnosis her behaviour could be self controlled or not. I suspect she is sufficiently high function to be charged and found guilty in the first place such that ASD is not enough of a factor to affect her actions being an offence.
This is one appeal relying on technicalities within the law I reckon, loopholes or other questionable point.
BoldonLad
Not part of the Elite
- Location
- South Tyneside
A bit mystified by what appear to be reasons why the perpetrator should have reduced or lenient sentence because of her "condition", would the same logic apply to the recent horrific case in Nottingham where a paranoid schizophrenic (Colocane) murdered three people?
OP
OP
Cycleops
Legendary Member
- Location
- Accra, Ghana
I don't think the appeal is based on the offenders condition but on a point if law that her defense team have picked up on. Whether she intended to cause the cyclist's death.
.
If she intended death, it would be murder.
The point of law is that manslaughter requires there ro be an illegal act.
If she intended death, it would be murder.
The point of law is that manslaughter requires there ro be an illegal act.
Like most appeals this is on a point of law which will be fully tested in court.
We have people in prison with way more needs than her the idea that a disability stops anyone committing a crime is stupid. To what extent they can be held accountable for a crime is for a court to test and determine.
The reports of the case and fully published judgement all make it clear her disability had nothing to do with it.
Her legal team keep talking about her disability yet have not used as the key part of her defence or appeal. So even they know its a dead duck. I've already pointed out on here that a full and detailed the assessment of her condition and care needs in custody. Will have been made long before we to this point. Prison health care will by now have working knowledge of her care needs and fully upto date care plan.
We have people in prison with way more needs than her the idea that a disability stops anyone committing a crime is stupid. To what extent they can be held accountable for a crime is for a court to test and determine.
The reports of the case and fully published judgement all make it clear her disability had nothing to do with it.
Her legal team keep talking about her disability yet have not used as the key part of her defence or appeal. So even they know its a dead duck. I've already pointed out on here that a full and detailed the assessment of her condition and care needs in custody. Will have been made long before we to this point. Prison health care will by now have working knowledge of her care needs and fully upto date care plan.
newts
Veteran
- Location
- Isca Dumnoniorum
Perhaps this appeal is about the defense legal team milking the government coffers for easy money knowing full well they have little chance of success?
The judge's summing up of the original trial went into great detail about disability not being an excuse for said behaviour.
The judge's summing up of the original trial went into great detail about disability not being an excuse for said behaviour.
Kingfisher101
Über Member
If her disability was an excuse and she had no/very little control of herself she would have been detained under the mental health act and gone to somewhere like Ashworth/ Broadmoor or Rampton.
Being threatening/intimidating and harassing someone is illegal especially when it causes this. This woman is a totally nasty piece of work.
Being threatening/intimidating and harassing someone is illegal especially when it causes this. This woman is a totally nasty piece of work.
She'd have a long wait they all have a long waiting list Rampton is currently closed to new admissions. The prison estate is full of people in need of real help and can't get it. Health care staff are left to deal the mess every day some of which is horrific. It's not for trying Health care staff work hard to get them moved. What's more some have not even committed an offence but have no way to go.
