Yet another child mauled to death.

[KnittyNorah]

Dog issues, are 100% the Owner. NOT the Dog...

THIS.
But it's the dog that suffers the ultimate punishment for what it has (in some cases inadvertently, but in many cases not) been allowed, taught and even encouraged to do by the owner ...

 

[Andy_R]

Unfortunately, because of lockdown, we are seeing an increasing number of reactive dogs. Dogs that haven't been socialised, and learn to react in the appropriate way around people and other animals, in breeds that we don't expect reactivity. Dogs are not naturally viscious - they are pack animals that need a heirarchy that they can understand, and this has just not been happening for the last 2 years.

 

[KnittyNorah]

My neighbour had a long planned and much wanted litter of pups from his champion field trial/working springer spaniel - right at the very beginning of lockdown.
In order to socialise those pups, they were put outside in their pen on the lawn, my neighbour went back indoors and the pre-arranged visit from nearby children accompanied by a parent, the teenager from down the road, me and other neighbours then happened with the pups' owner 'supervising' through the window ... fortunately the weather was lovely for weeks.
All the pups were 'spoken for' before they were born, and to his great credit my neighbour did not try to cash in on them, although he had many much higher offers for them. He wanted them to go to the right homes, not just to people that had a lot of money to buy a puppy ...

 

[Paulus]

As a dog owner of over 50 years, one thing some owners don't appreciate, particularly when they have small children is that they will buy squeaky toys for the dog to play with, chewing it, throwing it around having a high old time.
What sounds do babies and small children make, especially if the dog decides that the child is there as a plaything?
To a dogs, squeaky toys or a screaming child sound the same.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Please, let's not let this descend into another anti-dog thread.

We are hardly standard setters as a species.

Agree.

The dog or dogs did nothing wrong.

Its time to prosecute adults who have caused the life of yet another innocent child. Sadly the dog is the only other living thing that will lose its life.

Until we begin prosecuting adults for their negligence, nothing will change.

 

[Time Waster]

Can I just make a point on the origins of modern dominance or pack based dog behaviour ideas? They were first, in modern times, proposed in a book written by an American academic in the 60s based on his study of a wolf pack in America. He wrote what became a bestselling book on dog behaviour and started a whole style of training. He continued his research including studying other canine species and later on wrote iirc another 3 or 4 books on the subject.

Iirc from his second book onwards he completely disowned the theories espoused in his first book. Turns out deeper study shows domestic dogs do not behave like wolves but like a species of hunting dog. Instead of dominance and pack these hunting dogs were about resources. Basically their driver was about what gave them the best share of the available resources.

Applied to dogs this is probably best demonstrated by the food obsessed breed like labradorite who are easily trained in behaviours by the use of food based treats or resources. in fact humans are a dogs resource too.

So the idea of training out aggressive behaviour by dominance is now, applying evidence based behaviour theory considered dangerous. Slapping down a dog that "tries to assert dominance" or the cesar millan technique of pinning it down until it submits is now considered as having the potential of creating serious problems later on.

If you have any dog behaviour issues I seriously recommend looking up a member of the more academic not trade based professional bodies for serious behaviourists with more academic or evidence based training techniques. Certainly not a cycling forum or indeed TV trainers like millan who's theories have been discredited by modern research techniques.

 

[Time Waster]

Nearly forgot the comment made about people letting their dogs run around where birds are nesting. I suspect a lot of such cases is ignorance of nesting birds being present. You only have to see that with families visiting the Lakeland fells in the period when there's ground nesting birds. I've seen many a time kids have sent a nesting bird skywards in their protective and loud protective distraction flight.

Of course should we prosecute parents when they let their kids do what we criticise dog owners for letting their dogs do? There's probably a few things we condemn dog owners for that we parents indeed simply humans get away with. If a kid kills do we prosecute the parents? Perhaps we should? I think we certainly should prosecute irresponsible dog owners, that's a given. But where is the line between what a dog owner can do and can't do wrt stopping their dog causing harm? Is that line in the same place or do we want it in the same place for parents of kids who do harm? Totally off topic, top of the head musings based on comments made upthread.

 

[Beebo]

It’s just been confirmed that the dog was an American Bully XL.
It’s a legal breed, but is one of the ‘hard man dogs’.
They haven’t said how old the dog was or where it came from.

 

[Cycleops]

Doesn't really matter. As long as these knuckle draggers want these kind of dogs there will be a chain of idiots supplying them.
Just makes me so angry that people are willing to have these dogs and put their family at risk. In this case they lost s child, how she must have suffered.

 

[KnittyNorah]

If a kid kills do we prosecute the parents? Perhaps we should?

Well, if the only other option which society considered acceptable were to have the child 'put down', perhaps prosecution of the parents might become the preferred option if parental fecklessness or irresponsibility were involved ...

 

[Accy cyclist]

After that poor child was mauled to death on Tuesday by another of those horrendous 'bully dogs', I've heard that this type of thing can stop an aggressive dog in its tracks.

https://www.ljpetsuk.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=129



Have any of you heard if it works, or bought some? On the local info'/gossip Facebook page the other day a 'pocket bully' was reported as having escaped from the owner's house. This is the posted on Facebook picture of the escaped dog.

I didn't see this till I got back from walking my dog. It made me think, as I'd been in the area where the dog had been spotted running around in an agitated state. If it'd come at me and my small mutt I wouldn't have been able to defend me or him. Perhaps such a spray would help.

 

[KnittyNorah]

After that poor child was mauled to death on Tuesday by another of those horrendous 'bully dogs', I've heard that this type of thing can stop an aggressive dog in its tracks.

View attachment 676447
https://www.ljpetsuk.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=129



Have any of you heard if it works, or bought some? On the local info'/gossip Facebook page the other day a 'pocket bully' was reported as having escaped from the owner's house. This is the posted on Facebook picture of the escaped dog.

View attachment 676448

I didn't see this till I got back from walking my dog. It made me think, as I'd been in the area where the dog had been spotted running around in an agitated state. If it'd come at me and my small mutt I wouldn't have been able to defend me or him. Perhaps such a spray would help.

It's the blasted owners who need spraying - or maybe spaying. Or more.

That poor creature has had its ears cut off. Some brute did that to a harmless puppy - doubtless when it still had its eyes closed - and then they encourage, and even train and reward them, to be aggressive. Probably put them on steroids for all I know, too. No wonder the things was 'agitated', so would any sentient creature be.

The sprays and so on are probably worth a try.
You can get ultrasound deterrents as well as liquid spray deterrents; some people claim to have success with a simple loud whistle to blow, or an air-horn can. But although these are probably helpful in the case of deterring a normal dog, I wouldn't think they would be of much help in the case of an attack from a dog who has descended into a 'red mist' state of aggression. Nothing much is tbh. Some years ago a friend of mine had a little cairn terrier that was literally skinned alive in front of her by a dog in a red mist state. She (my friend) never really recovered from seeing this happen - on a path next to the children's play park of all places - and moved house shortly after, a long way away.

 

[Accy cyclist]

Nothing much is tbh. Some years ago a friend of mine had a little cairn terrier that was literally skinned alive in front of her by a dog in a red mist state. She (my friend) never really recovered from seeing this happen - on a path next to the children's play park of all places - and moved house shortly after, a long way away.

A few of us were talking today about these dogs and that horrible incident on Tuesday. I was the only one that hasn't witnessed a 'devil dog' attack. One bloke told of him out walking with his friend and his little dog, when an attack dog appeared from nowhere. I won't go into detail as I heard some disturbing stuff, but the little dog died after being attacked by the 'devil dog' even though both men tried frantically to save the dog. Less than a year ago on some land across from my flat another small dog was killed by a 'Mastiff' type dog in time. That dog's owner (a woman in her 60's) was ordered by law to keep the Mastiff type on a lead and to keep it muzzled when out walking it. What did I see the other day?! Only the same dog running around on the same land and un-muzzled to boot!!
Yes, you're probably right about that supposed repellent spray. It's ok saying 'just spray it at the dog and it will stop it', but in the heat of the moment when serious injury, even possible death could happen to you or your dog believe me, most of us would freeze in fear, or fumble to get the spray out of our pockets or bag! Then of course you'll probably have the danger of the attack dog's meathead owner attacking you if you do manage to immobolise his devil dog!

 

[Milzy]

It’s mad you can legally have such beasts some more aggressive than Wolfs without a license. If you want a Cerval cat which isn’t really all that big you have to apply for a dangerous animals license. Also as the owner you have to look after them 24/7 you can’t go on holiday and let friends feed & water them. Albeit owners probably do. Even in Canada & US you can own a Lynx in certain states. We should be able to have access to bigger cats here.

 

[Jameshow]

It’s mad you can legally have such beasts some more aggressive than Wolfs without a license. If you want a Cerval cat which isn’t really all that big you have to apply for a dangerous animals license. Also as the owner you have to look after them 24/7 you can’t go on holiday and let friends feed & water them. Albeit owners probably do. Even in Canada & US you can have a owt Lynx in certain states. We should be able to have access to bigger cats here.

Yeap just as intimidating and dangerous as a knife or gun, but less easy to police.

I had a large dog doberman sized but with a very large jaw come up to me today. Scared the life out if me and I'm used to dogs.