You just know the mental tone of voice

[purplepolly]

To get back to the original point, since the dual carriageway is congested and John Seaton wishes to see the cycle-track used, he can address both issues by cycling on the track instead of driving on the road.

Excellent idea, I really think you should spread it further with an email to letters page stletters@telegraph.co.uk

 

[thomas]

it probably wouldn't be such a hazard if more motorist's use their indicators to indicate when they are about to pull out to overtake
Drives me mad when i see all the drivers in front of me speed around a cyclist without indicating.

When beign taught to drive I was only taught to signal when overtaking cyclists/passings parked cars, etc, if I thought it was sensible to, but most of the time it wasn't necisary. I think you should need to indicate past cyclists if you overtake safely. I don't indicate past cyclists on the bike (unless sensible to do so - eg. lots of cars/someone probably about to overtake, etc)

 

[John Ponting]

it probably wouldn't be such a hazard if more motorist's use their indicators to indicate when they are about to pull out WOULD LIKE TO BE ALLOWED OUT WHEN IT IS SAFE TO DO SO to overtake
Drives me mad when i see all the drivers in front of me speed around a cyclist without indicating.
.

An indicator (or hand signal for us?) is an expression of wish NOT intent. Sadly, it has become a signal of intent - often without the preceding observation and risk assesment.

As with Thomas, I was taught to "consider the use of a signal" and to make a signal "when somebody else would benefit" from it. e.g. I always consider but seldom signal to pull back in after an overtake because we "drive on the left except when overtaking". Obviously I do a rear ob before pulling back in and only do so if it is safe to do so.

 

[dondare]

Excellent idea, I really think you should spread it further with an email to letters page stletters@telegraph.co.uk

Done, but they won't print it.

(Write an anti-cyclist rant about roadtax&insurance and they will.)

 

[jonesy]

Done, but they won't print it.

(Write an anti-cyclist rant about roadtax&insurance and they will.)

Indeed, not forgetting to mention that while we don't ride on the cycle paths (so expensively provided for our benefit) we always ride on the pavements...

 

[HF2300]

I particularly liked this one:

What is the need for bicycle bells? The idea that, by ringing a bell, cyclists can warn pedestrians that they should stay back or give right of way risks showing an arrogant lack of care.

Richard Benbow, Roughton, Norfolk

I take it the presence of a car horn risks showing an arrogant lack of care as well, then?

 

[dondare]

The potential for damage caused in an accident is far more in a car then it is on a bike. So car drivers should be allowed to use their horns when they need to.

Like: When they're stationary in traffic and getting impatient.
When they want to "tell someone off" for cutting in or being on a bike.

 

[Cab]

Like: When they're stationary in traffic and getting impatient.
When they want to "tell someone off" for cutting in or being on a bike.

Oh, come on, just don't rise to it...

 

[dondare]

I particularly liked this one:

What is the need for bicycle bells? The idea that, by ringing a bell, cyclists can warn pedestrians that they should stay back or give right of way risks showing an arrogant lack of care.

Richard Benbow, Roughton, Norfolk

I take it the presence of a car horn risks showing an arrogant lack of care as well, then?

I agree with it. If someone is obstructing you then use your brakes and your voice. (Be polite.) Bells are a waste of time, it's not as if peds react sensibly to them in any case.

 

[dondare]

Oh, come on, just don't rise to it...

I like to debate with Lee. He gives me the chance to make my points over and over again.
This is a good discussion on honking: http://www.slate.com/id/2204988

 

[leoc]

I agree with it. If someone is obstructing you then use your brakes and your voice. (Be polite.) Bells are a waste of time, it's not as if peds react sensibly to them in any case.

+1

"Hello" or "excuse me" always seem to work better, I've always associated the sound of a bicycle bell with "get out of my way, I'm more important than you" which is my first reaction to the sound of a car horn.

There was a story on another forum about a guy who cycles a lot in London, meeting one of his mates in the pub, said mate says "Oi you gave me the finger earlier you misrable sod" or words to that effect. Guy says "did you beep your horn" mate says "yes" guy says "exactly".

I guess the point I'm trying to make is: because of the way car horns are used in this country it always seems like a telling off to me, and my first reaction is defensive.

 

[HLaB]

You can never win, sometimes the bell agitates pedestrians and other times when you roll up behind someone and say 'excuse me please' they turn round and angrilly say 'where's the bell' even when you've completely stopped or walking by the bike.

 

[HF2300]

If someone is obstructing you then use your brakes and your voice. (Be polite.) Bells are a waste of time, it's not as if peds react sensibly to them in any case.

True... but I'm not sure that's the point Mr Benbow was making.

"Hello" or "excuse me" always seem to work better

Again true...

I've always associated the sound of a bicycle bell with "get out of my way, I'm more important than you" which is my first reaction to the sound of a car horn.

...and sadly some (many) use it that way - but that's what it ain't. I must admit, I can't help feeling the sort of bells supplied FOC with most bikes are about the politest and most timid 'audible warnings' I've heard!

 

[jamesgibby]

You can never win, sometimes the bell agitates pedestrians and other times when you roll up behind someone and say 'excuse me please' they turn round and angrilly say 'where's the bell' even when you've completely stopped or walking by the bike.

Which is when you sound your airzound
and say sorry is that better?

 

[briank]

Airzound! Now I know what I want form Santa. 115 decibels - Zounds good to me.
But just ggogled it and there's those who say that it doesn't work in the cold.
True?
Thanks