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<Tommy>

Illegitimi non carborundum
Location
Camden, London
Dang,you start off suggesting you will bring beer to the party and get Paul drunk on post ride endorphins then you just bring common sense! Who needs that? You are right though. We all accept the pro over reads watts so let’s move on. Nothing to see or say here any more...

Ha! To be honest I don't think Bridgy needs much encouragement to bury himself in the name of science / our entertainment. He loves it!

I'm itching to get involved but the atom delivery has been put back to early December. So when the weather turns nasty (looks like Tuesday for us Bob), I'm going to dust the pro off and do some hill climbs.
 

LBHIFI

Veteran
Location
Liseleje
Are we racing Tues/Thursday?
8pm Kiss on Tues.
6.30pm XRS on Thurs
Both Watopia hilly
I'll be in cat C
I don't think I'll be doing much racing while I'm following the plan made by Todaysplan. Those workouts are really tough, and I don't think they have taken age into account in the formular creating those plans. I'm having trouble getting the legs ready for the next workout.

Started from a 270 Watt FTP, and will do another one once I finish the plan and had some rest. Sometime mid/late November probably.
 

<Tommy>

Illegitimi non carborundum
Location
Camden, London
Saying that though, and not to be too argumentative, but I've been Googling and reading lots on other forums and there are similar concerns with the Neo and Kickr and the reliability of those numbers and speeds on Zwift. It seems fair to say that no trainer is truely accurate and even across the same brand there are differences. There is lots of negativity around the build quality of the Neo (especially the early builds) and the same for the Kickr (again, especially the first gen). I think most of us saw the same with the Pro and many of us I think returned our first ones to get a replacement.

There are too many variables at play to say one is better or more accurate than the other. Even when others have compared against power meters they have seen varying results, sometimes showing variation depending which power meter was being used (so not even power meters are the same and give the same results!).

As a number of others have said on other forums, just accept that it is nigh on impossible to get all the trainers to work the same way and be 100% accurate and just enjoy your cycling.

I'm happy that the differences between the Neo and the Pro are marginal - 7% on the units tested, and with Neo's considered to consistently under report watts by anything up to 2%. The Kickr is considered to be poor at descents and under report speed so @CXRAndy is at a disadvantage going downhill in Zwift compared to others!

Am I really that fast, and I really that strong? Not really relevant so long as I'm enjoying myself and gaining something from each ride and race :okay:

I don't know mate. The advantage all those other trainers have over the pro is that they have their own power meters. Oh and the fact they're not produced by bkool ^_^. I think if you go online you're going to find people who aren't happy or question everything but generally I think most mainstream powermeters claim to be accurate to within 3% at least. It's always possible some individual units fail. Some powermeters definitely have better reps than others. But they can be calibrated and tested to prove fault. You can't do this with the pro as it has no power meter. There's no way the bkool pro unit is within 7%. I think we can safely say the pro is at the bottom of the pile 100%. I know this first hand as I have a power meter on my road bike. It's a 'power2max ng' and it's regarded to be accurate within 1% and got an excellent reputation to the point where you'll struggle to find any negativity online at all. Now I honestly believe the difference between the readings on my power meter and the pro are over 100w or a to least they were before the summer. thats to say I believe my ftp would be at least 100w lower in reality compared to bkool. Wouldn't suprise me if it was even more than this. I think with the neo / kickr etc youre probably talking about a variance of 1-3% max. Of course this is anecdotal.
 
OP
OP
C

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
I can do a spin down test on the Kickr ,which then allows me to compare my Kickr to the Stages PM I have. Last time I did it both power meters recorded within 10W of each other. That's good enough for me:okay:

I'll rejig my routine for Tuesday :smile:. See y'all 8pm
 

bobinski

Legendary Member
Location
Tulse Hill
Saying that though, and not to be too argumentative, but I've been Googling and reading lots on other forums and there are similar concerns with the Neo and Kickr and the reliability of those numbers and speeds on Zwift. It seems fair to say that no trainer is truely accurate and even across the same brand there are differences. There is lots of negativity around the build quality of the Neo (especially the early builds) and the same for the Kickr (again, especially the first gen). I think most of us saw the same with the Pro and many of us I think returned our first ones to get a replacement.

There are too many variables at play to say one is better or more accurate than the other. Even when others have compared against power meters they have seen varying results, sometimes showing variation depending which power meter was being used (so not even power meters are the same and give the same results!).

As a number of others have said on other forums, just accept that it is nigh on impossible to get all the trainers to work the same way and be 100% accurate and just enjoy your cycling.

I'm happy that the differences between the Neo and the Pro are marginal - 7% on the units tested, and with Neo's considered to consistently under report watts by anything up to 2%. The Kickr is considered to be poor at descents and under report speed so @CXRAndy is at a disadvantage going downhill in Zwift compared to others!

Am I really that fast, and I really that strong? Not really relevant so long as I'm enjoying myself and gaining something from each ride and race :okay:

Whorty, I get a bit frustrated when I read posts like this. Firstly, You are comparing apples and oranges, PM’s and non PM trainers. And then you rely on anecdotal evidence from fora. I also follow the neo forums at Tacx and on FB and cannot recall one single occasion where, despite concerns or complaints about the Neo over or under reporting watts, anyone has shown that the unit is at fault. Instead it is the other item they are using for comparison, often a stages PM and often running old software and/or not calibrated properly. There is a reason the Neo is regarded as go to for accuracy at DCR etc. It is reliably accurate. As are the kickr v2/3 or 1 with the newish software update. Relying on the alleged failure rate of Neo’s is a dead end unless you know the % of failures relative to other turbo’s and whether they reflected dodgy watts. Mine failed and was replaced via Holland in a week! Outstanding customer support and fab communication throughout. But I digress.
The Neo and other wheel off or accurately calibrated turbos are a gulf apart from the pro which I assure you is not over reading by 7% but often considerably more. I know because I benefitted! You are welcome to bring your bike to mine and have a go on the Neo or if too inconvenient find a way to have a go on a kickr. You will be surprised. I am afraid that, whatever your undoubtedly impressive improvements in power and endurance, you will find that the pro flatters you greatly in Zwift as it does , variance aside, all pro users in Zwift. I hope this doesn’t sound harsh. I certainly don’t intend too but your post has touched a nerve.
 

bobinski

Legendary Member
Location
Tulse Hill
Yea I'll join the odd race will do tues defo

I look forward to that! W8 is flatter than I would like but never mind.

I can do a spin down test on the Kickr ,which then allows me to compare my Kickr to the Stages PM I have. Last time I did it both power meters recorded within 10W of each other. That's good enough for me:okay:

I'll rejig my routine for Tuesday :smile:. See y'all 8pm

Andy, I am going to try and tuck in behind you and steal your watts;)
 
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