Zwift Chat

[alex_cycles]

Well I discovered doing Alex Friday smash after doing a hard ladder the night before is not a good idea 🤢. Legs felt bad in the warm up and never improved . 1st race the 1 lap all out TT I think I was 18w down from last week so I knew I was in trouble for race 2 . 2nd race Scotland smash .I hung on over the Clyde kicker and out of the city where the unknown rider Joe attacked and I couldn't quite close the gap as he eased off Alex stuck the knife in and kept the pressure on B@#£|_d 😁 and the elastic broke . At one point I was 48 secs back but kept riding as Alex got dropped by Joe and ambled round got it back to 4secs before Alex woke up and put a dig in to break my resolve but even if Id caught him he would have dropped me on the kicker
Not looking forward to next Tuesday going to be a tough race if you go full in The TT before

I laughed when you mentioned football slogan because I woke up this morning with "You're gonna get your f'n 'ed kicked in" thinking specifically about today's races

In fact I almost typed it in messages but I know Zwift can be funny about that sort of thing so I didn't bother.

I was daydreaming at one point contemplating what we're going to do with a "tricky customer" in the ZR.app discord. I was so far gone that I almost said something out loud that shouldn't be said in public at this time almost forgetting I was streaming.


But then I woke up from my rest, saw you were 5s back and there was a nice drag coming, so I hit the afterburners.
Final League results for March 2026. We will now recess and probably reconvene in October or something...

 

[Venod]

Doubling up the power from a one-sided power meter system vs not doubling up and just averaging the one side data?

I don't know Colin, the Stages bike is double sided, I am sure there will be a good explanation, but its not plain to me what it is.

 

[13 rider]

I laughed when you mentioned football slogan because I woke up this morning with "You're gonna get your f'n 'ed kicked in" thinking specifically about today's races

In fact I almost typed it in messages but I know Zwift can be funny about that sort of thing so I didn't bother.

I was daydreaming at one point contemplating what we're going to do with a "tricky customer" in the ZR.app discord. I was so far gone that I almost said something out loud that shouldn't be said in public at this time almost forgetting I was streaming.


But then I woke up from my rest, saw you were 5s back and there was a nice drag coming, so I hit the afterburners.
Final League results for March 2026. We will now recess and probably reconvene in October or something...
View attachment 803607

I have watched the video so I saw the non reply 🤣

 

[alex_cycles]

Well I suppose it's a combination of Zwift software and the hardware being used that causes the problem. But you can ride like that on Zwift in group rides etc. to your heart's content - it's only when you want to race using that riding style that it's going to cause problems.

This has always been an issue in virtual racing and isn't just Zwift - we used to have these exact same issues on Bkool over 10 years ago and no elite competitive race on any software platform would allow it. Because it's known to inflate watts and give an unfair advantage. I know you say it's natural to you but it's considered an "unatural riding style" because no one rides like that in the real world

The idea that anyone would stop pedalling for a couple of seconds on a climb in real life is just laughable isn't it?

It is distinctly possible that people have "found I do better when I pedal on and off" by sheer evolution, but it is still considered an exploit which many race series will DQ for and lots of people will wag tongues about

I have to be honest I was "bloody gobsmacked" when Venod said he could do a sub-50 Alpe at 70 yo a few weeks ago. But with Zwift, who even knows?

My opinion is that "anything goes" as long as you are not deliberately breaking the rules of the game.

 

[Venod]

My opinion is that "anything goes" as long as you are not deliberately breaking the rules of the game.

Which brings us back to my OTT Zwift Games Stage6a, I just rode it as fast as I could, followed the guy I set off with at 4w/kg and left him on the first hill I did average 113rpm cadence for 14 minutes, I note from my power graph I had a few zero's but not a lot, I probably benefited by unintentional sticky watts that Event based power meters seem to produce, I got the ride scrubbed and my ZRS reset as I couldn't enjoy things with a ZRS in the 900's
But I will find it hard to hold back from trying.
The intentional sticky watts cheating graphs I have seen typically go from zero to high back to zero for the whole ride, this is mine from the TT.

 

[alex_cycles]

Which brings us back to my OTT Zwift Games Stage6a, I just rode it as fast as I could, followed the guy I set off with at 4w/kg and left him on the first hill I did average 113rpm cadence for 14 minutes, I note from my power graph I had a few zero's but not a lot, I probably benefited by unintentional sticky watts that Event based power meters seem to produce, I got the ride scrubbed and my ZRS reset as I couldn't enjoy things with a ZRS in the 900's
But I will find it hard to hold back from trying.
The intentional sticky watts cheating graphs I have seen typically go from zero to high back to zero for the whole ride, this is mine from the TT.

It's the flat-top power peaks that are usually the giveaway. They show that power is held constant at "last known input" when you get off the gas. That lag can last up to a few seconds on some equipment.

In DRS we had to DQ someone for that after a Captain reported them. It's a process that usually goes on behind closed doors to avoid unpleasantness and bad feeling. In this case the guy got a single race DQ, but said he had been unaware it was going on. He was told he was welcome to carry on if he avoided this pedalling technique, but he decided to quit the series "with no bad feeling". But those are just words.
Clearly it does leave a nasty taste in the mouth. His case was more clearcut than what I can see in your charts though, but there are some flat-top peaks in yours.

I still maintain that "cheating" requires intent. So people who do this unknowingly are not cheating. If the event rules do not forbid it, it's also not cheating, but may be frowned upon. You can be DQed from an event without cheating. But people can be quite quick to use that C word.

ZRL and Ladder supposedly have software that scans for this too and flags riders for human scrutiny.

But for the main ZHQ series I can't see them giving much of a damn, so just enjoy getting fit is what I say.

 

[Dorset Boy]

What is an "Event based Power Meter"?

 

[alex_cycles]

What is an "Event based Power Meter"?

From memory I think it's one that records a reading every x revolutions of the pedals rather than every y seconds.
Not completely sure though. It's something like that

Event-Based vs Time-Based Power Meters​

Power meters come in all shapes and sizes, but if you look at the way they calculate and transmit data, there are two types: event-based and time-based. Here are the definitions straight from the excellent “Power Meter 101” article on Slowtwitch:

• Event-based. This type calculates and transmits power information based on ‘events’. For example, with a crank-based power meter, each cadence revolution is an event. That finite piece of time is the starting and ending point for our time in the power equation. Data will not transmit to the head unit if events aren’t happening (i.e. if you stop pedaling).
• Time-based. This type is identical to the above, but with a caveat. Events happen and power is calculated the same – but this information is stored first, and then transmitted at a specific time interval. The CycleOps Powertap hub uses this. Why? Generally speaking, your wheels spin faster than your cranks – and when you stop pedaling, your bike keeps moving. Events happen much faster and for more of your ride, so they essentially bottle them up and shoot data to the head unit at regular intervals of one second.

As I understand it, pedal and crank power meters are generally event-based. Smart trainers are generally time-based. And that, my friends, is why Zwift appears to process their data in two different ways.

The above is from https://zwiftinsider.com/sticky-watts/

So from the above I think the issue is that if you stop pedalling the event based meter stops sending readings - i.e. it doesn't send a zero reading so Zwift waits a few seconds and maintains the last known input level - assuming that it's a comms dropout - or something.

So if you sprint to 500W and then stop pedalling you get a few seconds of 500W for free. Essentially that's how it works, but only with certain hardware.

My Elite Direto had a slower power dropoff than my Kickr v5, but even the Direto wasn't sticky Watts

Possibly the problem could be eliminated if they assumed zero instead of "last known input". But that would probably break the functionality of lots of devices people use for Zwifting so Zwift don't want to do that.

They could do it for races though - if there was will to do it. There isn't