yeah, I've seen Hembrow's blog - truly one of life's eccentrics!
Dutch Sustainable Safety in action
- Thread starter Richard Mann
- Start date
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it's funny you should say that, because Amsterdam is the one city in the Netherlands we could learn from. A great public transport system in a dense street pattern, very few private cars and, well, commercial traffic on the canals (darn it, we must have canals!)
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
A bit like (central) London, then. (Apart from the canals).
hey! That's just like the bottom of North End in Croydon!
slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
It's looking a bit "film noir" right now. I'm half expecting Harry Lime to partly emerge from the shadows....
Richard Mann
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Oxford
That could be fixed in a number of ways. Cycle lanes or bus lanes, more pedestrian space, parking in bays, more pedestrian crossings, target 85%ile about 25mph. To be honest, it looks like their heart is in the right place, they just haven't built "clear passage for bikes" into their thinking. A wide dual carriageway isn't a solution: it might have been OK for you, but it would never be used by the mass middle market for cycling.
Richard Mann
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Oxford
If you can show me some examples of "simple" suburban roads with 85%ile 25mph, I'd love to see them. You need to get speeds down to about that level to make them comfortable for middling cyclists (fast cyclists can tolerate about 30mph, because it's the speed differential that matters).
Richard Mann
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Oxford
[QUOTE 1697145, member: 45"]In the ideal world maybe. But my 6 year old cycles to school, and I struggle to imagine a UK culture where I'd be happy for him to be on the road with his older brother. Examples like this make supplementary cycle paths very useful.[/quote]
There's no law against 6 year olds cycling on the pavement. The critical thing is creating routes safe/legal enough to get accompanied 10-yr-olds to primary school, and unaccompanied 11 year olds to secondary school. The latter can be tricky, though it's easier if the routes to primary school exist, so they can acquire some roadsense before being let out without adult escort.
There's no law against 6 year olds cycling on the pavement. The critical thing is creating routes safe/legal enough to get accompanied 10-yr-olds to primary school, and unaccompanied 11 year olds to secondary school. The latter can be tricky, though it's easier if the routes to primary school exist, so they can acquire some roadsense before being let out without adult escort.
Yep, the point is the clear passage was the old 4 lane road or the Dutch segregated lane system (plenty of room). Either would work here. The latter might have had the advantage of appearing safer to parents who might be encouraged to allow their kids to cycle to the massive Sedgehill School just off this road. As it is Lewisham have driven even the reasonably fearless cyclist off.
As for (illegally) cycling on the footpath instead - if you move along the road you will see both legal and illegal cars blocking the way (and for anybody with a double buggy).
The elected Mayor of Lewisham is very proud of his Triumph Vitesse. After he was ticketed the traffic wardens mysteriously disappeared from our town centre. Funny things coincidences. Oh and the part time cycling officer is no more. Libraries and much else have been cut but any suggestion of keeping vital services funded by introducing residential street parking charging like nearly every other London borough was studiously ignored. Hence free parking on Southend Road and many others at the expense of cyclists and the community.
Would this happen in Dutch Land?
Independent Bicycle Ambassador. Urban Mobility Consultant. Marketing Strategist. Traveler. Citizen in the certified Bicycle Capital of the World
crikey! Almost royalty!
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
20's plenty.
Calm the speed, and restrict parking either by price or quantity, and cycling will increase because the speed/cost advantage of the car disappears.
Glow worm
Legendary Member
- Location
- Near Newmarket
I cycled through Holland last year and it was an absolute joy. I loved the segregation tbh but more than that I loved the attitude shown to me by drivers when did I cycle on roads and at crossing points. Yes some of the routes look a little ugly, but nothing that can't be improved through use of more sympathetic materials. I also loved the fact that almost everyone cycles - old/young whatever and in everyday clothes. Hardly a helmet in sight or stitch of lycra to be found. It is a part of everyday life seen as a 'normal' way of getting about the place. Outside every house were bikes as well as cars.
Unlike over here, cyclists aren't seen as eccentric weirdos or lycra nazis. Frankly every mile was just brilliant and I struggle to see why some UK cyclists don't like it. We're not all cut out for dressing up likewe're in the TDF and charging along 8 lane highways at 40mph.
My only gripe was the Dutch obsession with streetlighting. They have to light up almost every lane like Las Vegas - even the cycle paths. That seems a real shame and gave more of a suburbanised feel to even the smallest of villages.
Unlike over here, cyclists aren't seen as eccentric weirdos or lycra nazis. Frankly every mile was just brilliant and I struggle to see why some UK cyclists don't like it. We're not all cut out for dressing up likewe're in the TDF and charging along 8 lane highways at 40mph.
My only gripe was the Dutch obsession with streetlighting. They have to light up almost every lane like Las Vegas - even the cycle paths. That seems a real shame and gave more of a suburbanised feel to even the smallest of villages.
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
Holland not perfect? STONE HIM!
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